The Desire to Kill and Capital Punishment

N

notPresidentAndrew

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Banned
One disturbing trend I see in supporters of capital punishment is that they seem to have a desire to kill. They give the impression that they want to murder someone, and they wish to use the death penalty as a means. As if it were a method of "letting off steam." I think this because so many of them demand that murders die in gruesome manners.

The government has the responsibility to protect all of its citizens, even those who are not law abiding (I'm definitely not saying that we should let them off easy. They should be in prison for the rest of their lives, and punished serverly, but not by violating the "cruel and unusual punishment" amendment. It is there for a reason, you know).


Supporters of capital punishment tend to have a desire to kill, and wish to use capital punishment as a means. I say this because of comments made by these supporters suggesting that extremely cruel means be used for execution. "I wanna kill someone caus' I'm mad at the world, let's go after the murders," is not a justification for this barbaric practice.
 
Death is death is death

Let those who were effected decide the outcome of a criminal.
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Isn't that essentially what 9/11 was about?

The United States has been called to account for its foreign policy, including but not limited to its historical support of Israeli policies. The US is guilty, in the eyes of many Palestinians and their supporters, of aiding and abetting atrocities.

The point being that those affected are not particularly known for objectivity. Objectivity is vital to the presentation of true and proper justice, else "justice" becomes a catch-phrase for status quo.

While it seems that it should be most convenient and expedient to murder transgressors of the law, it does not always turn out to be so. Furthermore, the allowance of murder under special circumstances opens all manner of routes for exploiting the logical devices of that permission. When you get down to it, stereotypical mafioso bullying and justification sounds much like the rhetoric of nations about to do war. In the U.S., we still sometime refer to the Hatfields and McCoys, a famous feud which lasted officially twenty-eight years, but which still festered to the point that I can remember watching descendants of the families shaking hands at a funeral on a rainy morning; it was, apparently, a momentous event. John Brown, while not a slave himself, undertook justice; as a citizen of the country, the crime of slavery did affect him. It's an extended argument, I admit, but it does serve to show what happens when retribution ("justice") is left to the common man.

When I was in high school, a man named Wesley Alan Dodd confessed to the rape and murder of two young boys, and asked specifically to receive the death penalty. How can I possibly oppose? Yet many of my anti-death penalty colleagues did, and it was a lesson in temperance when lawsuits were filed on Dodd's behalf against his wishes.

But as long as there exists a legitimized form of killing, be it penal or in warfare, human beings will always have a delicate ethical structure to plunder in order to legitimize other forms of murder.

American politicians have a long tradition of making principled stands in the final hours of their office. From Adams to Clinton have stirred up political sands with "midnight" orders. Thus I applaud former Illinois Governor George Ryan for his outgoing swipe at capital punishment; perhaps we'll find hope at midnight.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
One disturbing trend I see in supporters of capital punishment is that they seem to have a desire to kill. They give the impression that they want to murder someone, and they wish to use the death penalty as a means. As if it were a method of "letting off steam." I think this because so many of them demand that murders die in gruesome manners.
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I have absolutely no idea what your talking about here. I am a die-hard supporter of the death penalty and I have never had the urge to kill someone. I really dont think us supporters want someone to die in a gruesome manner but come on, look at the current method - lethal injection? Wow I'd be real scared.

The government has the responsibility to protect all of its citizens, even those who are not law abiding (I'm definitely not saying that we should let them off easy. They should be in prison for the rest of their lives, and punished serverly, but not by violating the "cruel and unusual punishment" amendment. It is there for a reason, you know).
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You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter.
 
"You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter."

Definetly. I would too. Of course, I'm also above the mentality of said five year old and capable of realizing that my "tune" would be one sung to the melody of emotion and pure instinctual hatred instead of logic.
 
I do not think the desire to kill has anything to do with support for capital punishment. It is the desire for justice. Some people feel that 'an eye for an eye' is proper justice. Then again, some people would like to take an eye for an eye until nobody can see.

I haven't run into too many great arguments for capital punishment. One of the benefits to capital punishment might be the sense of closure and justice given to the victims families.

However, I haven't heard much from the other side. Right now, the only good argument I see against capital punishment is the cost of execution. I am not sure why it costs so much.

Most against capital punishment give some ideal ideology about how killing a murderer only repeats the crime or some such crap. Killing somebody that has murdered several innocent people is not the same.

Just some thoughts from a fence straddler :)
 
Originally posted by *stRgrL*
You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter.
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time is a great healer. after the initial bloodlust has passed, it is quite possible for understanding on the part of the victim.
it has been know to happen!
 
Originally posted by *stRgrL*
You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter.
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In a way, aren't you providing the criminal with an easy way out - quick death? That way, they won't have to live with their conscience for very long (interesting how you assume they felt/will feel no remorse). Whereas prison will keep them alive, so to speak, to allow them to be studied, maybe trends found with other rapists. You don't allow for the possibility of rehabilitiation? Maybe they are just inflicting what has been inflicted upon them.
 
Right now, the only good argument I see against capital punishment is the cost of execution. I am not sure why it costs so much.
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Whether pro or against, the idea that money should be a consideration in a decision of this importance is really sickening.
 
Originally posted by Circe
Whether pro or against, the idea that money should be a consideration in a decision of this importance is really sickening.
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Finances certainly should be considered. In some areas there is not enough money for police forces because the death penalty costs so much. I'd rather throw them in jail and give the money to the victim's family.
 
Bloodlust, integrity, and other considerations

I have absolutely no idea what your talking about here. I am a die-hard supporter of the death penalty and I have never had the urge to kill someone.
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Like I said, it's a trend.

However, if you live in a state where your tax dollars have executed someone, you have participated in their murder. Call it justice if you want, but there is nothing different about having the state do it than hiring a hit man.
I really dont think us supporters want someone to die in a gruesome manner but come on, look at the current method - lethal injection? Wow I'd be real scared
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If you say so. But given your next comment, about child-killing, I wonder if you're really thinking these things through. I've heard some pretty creative suggestions for punishing the guilty from the victims' side of the aisle. And if the relative "humanity" of lethal injection becomes the standard execution method around the country, it would still be unnecessary. I know that making it more aesthetic by not leaving the dead's eyes bugging out with a plume of smoke coming off the charred flesh frozen into a horrible expression makes it easier for some people to stomach. I know people who watched the execution of the Romanian dictators and laughed while the bodies flopped around in a ditch in their last nervous twitches. But no, they, like you, never had the urge to kill someone.
You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter.
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This is one of the lowest, sickest plays by the pro-murder crowd. The honest truth is that you're full of shit, because despite such horrid crimes, I happen to believe that society, even with all its faults, is still morally superior to a child-killer. It would only be compounding the damage to forsake that civility and scream for murder. Besides, as a liberal, I know that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when conservatives come around to an issue only because their stance affects a loved one. Whether it's Nancy Reagan appealing to the right to allow embryonic stem-cell testing (the facts haven't changed, only Ronnie's condition has deteriorated), or Newt Gingrich backing off his anti-gay stance because his half-sister is a lesbian, it's still the same foul stench of hypocrisy. Why would I dishonor my daughter's memory by selling out every principle I taught her as precious to life just in order to satisfy an inner bloodlust?

Understand, I'm a creature of civilization. Without a certain amount of societal trapping, I would not necessarily survive. Civilization is a fundamental part of my life, and those who would rather live in the wilderness ought to, and stop pretending that civilized people can invent justifications for what they already proclaim as wrong. In other words, don't drag the rest of us down to your gutter.

But to imply that a person would, for personal loss, revoke civility is a horrible accusation. Perhaps principles are so flexible and worthless to you, but there are people to whom integrity means a great deal. And some of us will go down with that ship. Lick the wounds of your own conscience in private; don't try to spread the festering infections.

An eye for an eye, as the good Doctor said, leaves everybody blind.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Andrew,

If you're saying that money should be a factor when trying to determine whether a person should be killed or spared, then - If I understand you correctly - you're saying that we should do whatever is cheeper. For example, if to execute someone will cost us less money than to give him life-sentence, we should go with the execution. Is that what you're saying?
 
It should be considered, but should not be the only factor. There are better things we can do with our money than kill people. Despite popular myth, capital punishment costs more than life in prison.
 
andrew

do elaborate more.
you know, show your true colors......dig yourself into a hole......shit like that!
 
In a way, aren't you providing the criminal with an easy way out - quick death?
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No. I believe (and I could be wrong here) that these pieces of shits actually get to relive killing their victims everynight in their fantasies. I dont think they should be able to do that.

You don't allow for the possibility of rehabilitiation?
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Rehabilitation is a joke. Enough said.

This is one of the lowest, sickest plays by the pro-murder crowd.
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Are you trying to tell me that if someone sickenly killed your new daughter, you would be okay with that person sitting in a cell and getting educated and getting 3 meals a day. Unlike me, I think your the one full of shit.

Besides, as a liberal, I know that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when conservatives come around to an issue only because their stance affects a loved one.
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It sure leaves a bad taste in my mouth when someone comments on something they have no personal experience with. My advise, go talk to a parent that has lost their child to the hands of another.

I bet your goal in life Tiassa is to for the ACLU. Come on, admit it:D
 
They're just looking for the gratification of murder in a scenario where their morals don't object...
 
star justice is surpose to be impartial

thats why the victom has no say

now if we take ADAMS aproch and the victom\clostest person has to carry out the DP IF they want to AND we could be sure 100% (NOT reasonable doubt) then go for it

the only problem i see is if the person gets a taste for blood
 
I hate to repost, but....
"You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter."

Definetly. I would too. Of course, I'm also above the mentality of said five year old and capable of realizing that my "tune" would be one sung to the melody of emotion and pure instinctual hatred instead of logic.
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You'd be singing a different tune if someone kidnapped, raped and blugeoned to death your 5 year old daughter
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Yes I would, my mind would be clouded by hatred and anger.
 
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