Oh, that can't be possible ...someone up there in the thread somewhere said I didn't have any logic, so how could you find a flaw?
Baron Max
The Death Penalty - Why Not?
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Oh, that can't be possible ...someone up there in the thread somewhere said I didn't have any logic, so how could you find a flaw?
Baron Max
Except it is not an accident. There is a well know, well documented bias to convict certain innocent people above and beyond others: Blacks, indigents, Hispanics, Arabs, the poor of any color...
Because of this bias it cannot be concidered an accident. If any one is commiting a crime it is still treated as murder if some one dies "by accident" .
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Who, oddly, are mostly black, and can't afford lawyers, so get state appointed ones, ....
Yes, Max, I am concerned that a miscarriage of justice will lead to the death of an innocent. Well done, how many posts has it taken to sink in?
'Executed wrongly' does not equate to 'an accident' Max. They didn't slip and accidentally administer three needles in succession. There was INTENT.
Apples to Oranges Max, and you keep dodging the question;
"If you equate the intentional killing of potentially innocent people in jail, why prosecute other intentional killings, if the whole loss of life is as meaningless and trivial to you as losing life in a car accident?"
No, of course not. But what we're comparing is the deaths of innocent people killed ....get this now .... BY ACCIDENT!
The state does NOT execute innocent peope by design ...if an innocent man is later found to have been innocent, his death was ACCIDENTAL. Accidental in the same/similar way that a motorist does NOT intentionally kill someone in a car wreck ...that death was ACCIDENTAL.
One innocent death by accident = one innocent death by accident.
Baron Max
Now you're just throwing in human character flaws in order to further your own agenda. There is nothing in the state laws or rules that permit that kind of bias by juries, prosecutors, etc. And if it happens, then that is also accidental .....damned sure not by design or intent!
But if you throw in bias, I'm sure that if we worked at it, we could show the same bias in car accidents. So what does it prove about anything???
Ahh, but many murders are treated differently ...and some are even treated as "accidental" murders! That's why there's differing degrees of murder according to the law.
And once again; One accidental death = one accidental death. And why y'all can't see that or why you try to argue otherwise is foolish and ignorant. No, that's not true ......you're all blinded by your bias! ...just like you've mentioned bias in your comments above.
Baron Max
But you're not concerned at all about the "miscarriage" of drivers who smash into innocent people's cars and kill them. Why not? If the loss of innocent lives is important to you, then you should be far more concerned about the loss of innocent lives in car accidents. Yet you're not. :shrug:
Nope, that's not true. The needle was slipped into what they thought and bellieved to be a guilty, vicious murderer. They did NOT know that he was innocent. It was only later that they discovered that their thoughts and beliefs had been wrong. So, it was an accident by the courts, by the state, by the juries.
But by your thinking above, it could also be said that a driver, "executing a wrong turn", killing someone in a car accident, "intentionally" caused the accident that killed the innocent victim. See? I can twist logic, too.
Accidental death of an innocent person = Accidental death of an innocent person.
Baron Max
No, I don't think so. However, we could, if we chose to do so, convince ourselves that that the driver in an accident "intentionally" made a wrong move in his car ...thus causing the deadly accident. Had he not made that wrong turn or wrong move, the accident would not have occurred. So, ...did he intentionally kill the victim?
Baron Max
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
No. And you are making less and less sense. I know you get off on arguing for the sake of arguing, but this is getting ridiculous.
You just can't argue your case with any degree of logic or rationality, that's all. So you resort to personal comments about your opponent. Geez, happens all the time, Enmos, don't worry about it, okay?
Which brings up a very interesting issue. I would guess that if all drivers on the highway were to follow all of the rules and laws of driving, including those "courtesy rules", that there'd be no, or damned few, fatal car accidents. So, ...can we conclude that drivers who cause fatal accidents "intentionally" killed the other innocent driver? I mean, he probably failed to follow some rule or law of driving, right?
Just like the executioner in the death penalty ...he thought that the prisoner was guilty, the state said he was guilty, the jury said he was guilty, ...?
Baron Max
Because that's a straw man introduced by you into this debate perhaps? But one that still nullifies your 'logic' nonetheless!
Oh I am, but that isn't for this debate.
No, it was not an accident. It was deliberate. It was a miscarriage of justice, if you want a phrase for it, but it was no accident.
As it happens, we don't refer to them as 'accidents' in the UK anymore, but 'traffic incidents', because there is most often blame. But that is a different debate Max!
Meanwhile Max, you keep dodging the question;
"If you equate the intentional killing of potentially innocent people in jail, why prosecute other intentional killings, if the whole loss of life is as meaningless and trivial to you as losing life in a car accident?"
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You just can't argue your case with any degree of logic or rationality, that's all. So you resort to personal comments about your opponent. Geez, happens all the time, Enmos, don't worry about it, okay?
Which brings up a very interesting issue. I would guess that if all drivers on the highway were to follow all of the rules and laws of driving, including those "courtesy rules", that there'd be no, or damned few, fatal car accidents. So, ...can we conclude that drivers who cause fatal accidents "intentionally" killed the other innocent driver? I mean, he probably failed to follow some rule or law of driving, right?
Just like the executioner in the death penalty ...he thought that the prisoner was guilty, the state said he was guilty, the jury said he was guilty, ...?
Baron Max
Baron, I lost my appetite..
No, I haven't dodged it ...I've answered it in a thousand different ways on this thread, you just weren't reading.
In answering again; It's simple, one killing is done by the state in accordance with the law and any and all legal proceedings in a legitimate court of law. Any other killings are done illegally according to the legitimate legal statues of the state. See? One is illegal, the other is legal. See? See?
A legal killing by the state is no different to the state allowing, even demanding, that its soldiers kill the enemy soldiers in battle. Surely you wouldn't arrest and try soldiers for killing the enemy soldiers, would you?
Well, it is somewhat meaningless to me. But see, here's the catch ...you claim that it's NOT meaningless to YOU. Yet you rant and rail against the death penalty ...when you should be ranting and railing against car accidents which take far, far more innocent lives than the death penalty EVER did.
See? If you don't believe in the death penalty, just say so. There's absolutely no reason for you to try to justify your beliefs. there's also no reason for you to continue to try to convince me to agree with you ....when I've pointed out all the inconsistencies of your arguments.
Baron Max
Most people feel that way after they've lost an argument for which they feel strongly. But take heart, it's not a big deal ....you can still be against the death penalty without being able to justify your stance.
Just repeat your stance over and over, and soon you'll come to believe it ...justification having nothing to do with it.
Baron Max
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Most people feel that way after they've lost an argument for which they feel strongly. But take heart, it's not a big deal ....you can still be against the death penalty without being able to justify your stance.
Just repeat your stance over and over, and soon you'll come to believe it ...justification having nothing to do with it.
Baron Max
lol
Bit weak, since you know you're getting away with it
Yep, and the death penalty continues to occur in the better states of the USA. Many of the other states, those liberal mamby-pamby states, are now trying to find the money to built more and bigger prisons to house the criminals that should be put to death ...or out of the misery of the taxpayers!
Baron Max
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Perhaps if you revealed your true sentiments.. I'm not even sure whether you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or that this is really how you feel about it.
To me it's not so black and white.. Of course I see the problematics with jailing costs, and on the other hand there is the potential of CP to kill innocent people.
If we could somehow completely eliminate this potential I would be in favor of CP in extreme cases.
Why should that matter to anyone? Do you think, for example, that an attorney should unequivically believe the innocence of his client just to represent him in court of law? No, I'm not an attorney, but it's exactly the same principle.
If we could eliminate any and all potential for accidents that kill innocent people, then I'd be more willing to allow peope to drive on the open highways!
Have I mentioned to you that there are far, far more innocent people killed in car accidents than in death penalty accidents?
Baron Max
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I does to me. I prefer not to debate people to whom debating is a big joke.
Can you please stick to CP instead of repeating the same nonsensical analogy over and over ?If we could eliminate any and all potential for accidents that kill innocent people, then I'd be more willing to allow peope to drive on the open highways!
Have I mentioned to you that there are far, far more innocent people killed in car accidents than in death penalty accidents?
Baron Max