The Concept of Hell

R

rockguitarist89

Registered Member
This is a mere soapbox for me. I used to be a Christian. Not just a Christian, mind you, but somebody who was willing to give up everything they had to spread the Word of God. Now being awakened to rationality, I have something to ask you all. I apologize if this thread seems like a rant, but I feel it is legit.

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell? I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope. Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous.

As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****. The cruelty in the Bible is just unimaginable. I could list many examples, which I might later in this thread of just some of the absurd happenings in the Bible.

Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline men's wife. Bathsheba gets pregnant. Does David get reprimanded? No. Instead, God takes the baby's life as David's punishment. Wow, go God! I could go on and rant, but next example...

2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?) Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate. I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible, gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?
 
I believe the Bible is largely metaphorical; a construct after the facts - embellishments of historical events - celestial ones too. Flood myths are common in many cultures, e.g. The story of Jonah inside a big fish goes back further than ~700BCE or whenever the Torah or Pentateuch was put together.

With that in mind, and keeping in mind certain experiences of my own that have led me to my worldview of religions and writings and all that: that the Christian Bible has a lot of parallels in other religious writings if you read any of them. It certainly isn't the only place you can find certain kinds of tales and parables, related to our philosophical outlook, our culture.
At some stage of our development, we must have had a single culture - we all believed in the same kinds of metaphor. So it isn't a big deal to see the same kinds of stories, that must be based on the same metaphor, in different cultures. Flood myths are the most common, I think you'll find - but why? Why is the characterisation of a vengeful god, punishing wicked humans, in most examples? Where does the myth itself come from, a natural event maybe?
 
The notion of hell is silly, because an all powerful god could create an infinite about of hell/heavens, which with each person would go to one of them, depending on what the deserve, which god knows with his all knowingness. It's just stupid to think that God is restricted by human things, such as logic, according to theists, but apparently he is too "busy" doing other things than to save a child, stillborn, who had no knowledge of Christ anyways, and therefore will go to hell. I guess that means he approves of this. Nice guy, this God.
 
The KJV is too contradictory for its god to exist. There can't be a square triangle.
If certain parts are true, then anyone who doesn't believe isn't saved from the hell we're otherwise destined for. Deserve's got nothing to do with it. Which is insane, of course. Which fits all the other insanity of the bible. If much of the KJV is true, Yahweh is insane, unpredictable, unlovable & untrustworthy & has very low selfesteem. It could've given us the bible for unknowable reasons yet won't stick to it. Maybe there won't be a hell. Maybe everyone will be in hell. IF Yahweh exists, Christians, despite their faith & their holy word, do not know what the god will do.
Of course the 2 examples you cite are a very small bit of the horrible violence of god. But David also had her husband murdered.
 
The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit.

A God that was created in the minds of men that wanted to spread their power through fear.

The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.

The biblical concept of hell is logically impossible as it contradicts the existence of heaven. One could not be happy in heaven knowing a loved one is burning in hell for eternity. Thus, heaven cannot be perfect and cannot exist. Neither can you say that god will manipulate your consciousness to make you happy because this would infringe on your free will.

I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****.

Yes the men who created him must have had vivid imaginations to have created such a sadomasochistic belligerent douchebag.
 
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The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.
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He sends them their for rejecting the forgiveness. He has provided for them thought the Messiah Jesus. Rejecting the Word of God is a most serious thing.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell?
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If you have come to reject the sacrifice that Jesus went through to atone for your sins and you refuse to change your mind, Then yes you will have eternity in the Lake of Fire.


I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope.
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It is not a false hope :)


Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous.
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Well i am not saying that you are going to the lake of fire. But i believe if you die in your current rejection of His atonement for your sin then yes you are destined to the Lake of Fire. Irrespective of your opinion that it is ridiculous. Irrespective of your disbelief. What will be will be.



As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?
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Yep.

You think your righteous works buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding. You are a sinner as is the serial killer is. The difference is that the serial killer has accepted the forgiveness of God for his sins while you have rejected the forgiveness of your sins. Those who are not forgiven have eternity in the Lake of Fire.


Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****.
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Make your judgements upon God if you like. Declaring God who is perfect a "son of a b****" is a grand insult indeed. But it will not justify you on the day of judement.





Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline men's wife. Bathsheba gets pregnant. Does David get reprimanded? No. Instead, God takes the baby's life as David's punishment. Wow, go God! I could go on and rant, but next example...
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You false liar.

Read the response David received from God through Nathan his prophet: See all the stuff you left out. Have you ever read the bible yourself false accuser?

2 Samuel 12

1 Then the LORD sent Nathan to David. And he came to him, and said to him: “There were two men in one city, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had exceedingly many flocks and herds. 3 But the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb which he had bought and nourished; and it grew up together with him and with his children. It ate of his own food and drank from his own cup and lay in his bosom; and it was like a daughter to him. 4 And a traveler came to the rich man, who refused to take from his own flock and from his own herd to prepare one for the wayfaring man who had come to him; but he took the poor man’s lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him.”
5 So David’s anger was greatly aroused against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, the man who has done this shall surely die! 6 And he shall restore fourfold for the lamb, because he did this thing and because he had no pity.”
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in His sight? You have killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword; you have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the people of Ammon. 10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’”
13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”
And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.” 15 Then Nathan departed to his house.

So to you now take this opportunity to use the deeds of David to blaspheme the God of Abraham. Tell your lies to those who are ignorant of the scriptures and you may prosper in it. But as the saying goes you can fool most of the people most of the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time.


2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?)
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Why the sarcasm? Does it add to your points? No not one bit. You just reveal the spirit within you.


Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.
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So be it. Where the boys mocking him because he was bald or where they mocking his baldness seeking to undermine him as a messenger of God. You do not know the motivation of those who mocked Elisha. Or even those who may have urged the children to do it. God knows the whole situation. You Don't.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate.
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Your doing very well in revealing the hatred that is within you. An excellent job indeed.


I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible,
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"studied the Bible" ???? I have already revealed by posting 2 Samuel 12 the quality of your supposed bible study. I suggest you stop making proud boasts that have been shown to be lies.


gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?
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This is not about your mother. This is about you and your personal reply to the Word of God. At lest your mom has one thing right. Your full of venom.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
It is not a false hope :)
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It's as much as a false hope as any other religion that promises paradise. You might as well worship the three little pigs, at least the story is short, easy to memorize, and is written in a simple childish style that isn't as convoluted as the bible (Stops you from having all those pesky interpretations).


You think your righteous works buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding.
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You think a simple acceptance of Jesus in your last breath, while during your whole life you've been murdering people and raping babies, buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding.

You are a sinner as is the serial killer is. The difference is that the serial killer has accepted the forgiveness of God for his sins while you have rejected the forgiveness of your sins.
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What if that serial killer murdered someone who would have turned to Christ so he/she suffered an eternity in hell because of that? Funny how you can say a simple white lie is equivalent to such a horrible (fictional) deed. Then again your book of ancient desert scribblings says so, therefore, it's true. Right?

Those who are not forgiven have eternity in the Lake of Fire.
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That's nice, I'll be spending time with some of the greatest people to ever exist including Einstein and Hawking.

Make your judgements upon God if you like. Declaring God who is perfect a "son of a b****" is a grand insult indeed. But it will not justify you on the day of judement.
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What If I call him a sadomasochist and can back that up, is it ok? I mean it's true and all.

You false liar.
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A false liar? That seems a little redundant. Also, you'd be the one to convict someone else of being a liar when you lie to yourself every day. Keep telling yourself that your fairy tales are real, that still won’t make them true.


So be it. Where the boys mocking him because he was bald or where they mocking his baldness seeking to undermine him as a messenger of God. You do not know the motivation of those who mocked Elisha. Or even those who may have urged the children to do it. God knows the whole situation. You Don't.
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So you see the ridiculousness of it? You have too; otherwise you wouldn’t be making excuses for god.


Your doing very well in revealing the hatred that is within you. An excellent job indeed.
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He’s not full of hatred, I see it more as contempt.

This is not about your mother. This is about you and your personal reply to the Word of God. At lest your mom has one thing right. Your full of venom.
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And you’re full of ****.
 
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rockguitarist89 said:
This is a mere soapbox for me. I used to be a Christian. Not just a Christian, mind you, but somebody who was willing to give up everything they had to spread the Word of God. Now being awakened to rationality, I have something to ask you all. I apologize if this thread seems like a rant, but I feel it is legit.

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire...fire...fire.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell? I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope. Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous. We are all believers in something. I just happen to believe that there is no god.

As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****. The cruelty in the Bible is just unimaginable. I could list many examples, which I might later in this thread of just some of the absurd happenings in the Bible.

Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline. ` could go on and rant, but next example...

2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?) Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate. I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible, gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?
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*************
M*W: Welcome to SciForums, my precious! You will have a lot to offer this website. I was walking in your shoes once, but now I'm free of the delusion of religion. You are not alone! People who post on SciForums have walked in your shoes. We understand where you're coming from.

Also, we don't give too much credence to what religionists say. They are the deluded ones, but they can't see how they are deluded. Be careful when you reply to S.A.M. She is an habitual liar. She is Muslim, but that's really not her downfall. There are Muslims who are honest and respectable people. S.A.M. is not one of them.

You'll find the moderators of this forum to be open-minded, so don't worry about any rants you may have. You will find many friends here, but you will also find a few enemies, too. Don't worry, you will be in good hands!

Don't be confused, my precious. I believe you will soon see the truth. SciForums will lead you in that direction. SciForums saved my life. I am a true believer in atheism! Some people say that atheism is not a belief. I dare to deny that statement!


Again, welcome to the web site that will bring you the truth! You can't go anywhere else to find it. You are in the right place! Again, welcome. I'm sure we all will look forward to your coming posts!

Regards,

~ Medicine*Woman
 
camilus said:
can anyone explain to me why they believe hell is fiery??
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M*W: The concept of hell is fiery, because it is an image of the bright sun. If anyone dares to look directly into the sunlight, your eyes will be burned... aka the Lake of Fire! It's all metaphorical. There is no Lake of Fire ergo, no Hell. People who believe in this crap are delusional (i.e Adstar).

You have nothing to worry about. You will never end up in any (Lake of fire)! That is the major delusion of christianity. The ("Lake of Fire) is just a delusion of the Sun!

You heard this first from Medicine*Woman.
 
Adstar:

From what you've written, I've concluded you are either joking, or one close-minded human. I'm thinking the former. It is obvious to me that through your intended fearful and hurtful responses to my original post that you are trying to make me angry and I am no fool.

I believe Adstar, that you are an atheist, trolling on the SciForums network just to annoy people, acting as if you are a know-it-all Christian. The secrets out. Thanks for making my day. You are not even good at hiding this illusion of false religion.

By taking the time to google up what I was talking about or going through your Bible's appendix, it's easy to copy and paste, or re-write the words of the Bible. That gives you no creditability in my book. Your thoughts are not your own. Next time you respond to any one of my posts, I will completely disregard it as if it were not there. I do not to waste my time on reading trolls responses to my threads. Once again, Adstar, you are an atheist trolling on these forums trying to convince everyone you are Christian. It's so obvious through ways you respond to posts that you are just trying to be a douchebag.
 
Kadark said:
Some people have relatively high pain thresholds, but all of that is negligible when your entire body is being roasted by fire so hot that its appearance takes the colour of pitch black.

What?

Kadark
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*************
M*W: Sorry, I thought you sprechen Sie Deutsche.
 
Adstar said:
Revelation 20


22 ....So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom....
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Carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. That sounds like a metaphor to me, or was the beggar physically carried by angels to the chest area of Abraham.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
I am a true believer in atheism! Some people say that atheism is not a belief. I dare to deny that statement!
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Believing in atheism is equivalent to me believing that my shirt is red. Everything is a belief, but not all beliefs are faiths.
 
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