Rules? I thought it was advice.
They read likes rules.. Repeated over and over again.
Where in this entire thread has anyone suggested that a woman in the circumstance you described yourself in deserved to be sexually assaulted. Are you really that dense not to realize that the actions of all parties involved in any incident share some responsibility for its outcome, regardless of their intentions?
Are you thick?
Because as has been explained repeatedly that the constant reminder of the "advice" or rules that women should be following to prevent being raped sets the tone that if she fails, then she somehow deserves it. Provided evidence of how and why this happens. So why are you still going on and on about it, asking me what I thought I should or could have done different to prevent it and then listing advice of what you feel I could or another woman could have done to prevent being raped in such circumstances?
I used rules in response to your earlier designation as such, and you repeated it at the beginning of this post. If you take steps to avoid an assault, you’ve prevented one.
And if one does not? Then what?
Once again, just so you get it.. When you have this expectation that women prevent themselves from being raped, and she is raped, then she feels as though she has failed to prevent what ends up happening to her. It makes her feel guilty, ashamed, and somehow even complicit.
So once more, can you please stop insisting on rape prevention ideology.
You’re equating a discussion about sexual assault to the act of perpetrating one? You’ve got to be kidding. Then you’ve got the temerity to continually interject your alleged rape experience in support of your philosophical positions in this thread and then insist that others have no right to express contrasting positions? Is this supposed to pass for rational behavior in a discussion forum?
Let me explain something to you, because you are either being deliberately obtuse or perhaps you really are an arsehole.
When someone tells you they have been raped, you don't then turn around and ask them if they had thought in hindsight what else they could have done to have prevented themselves from being raped. Do you have any idea of what that does? Any at all? I asked you to stop repeatedly and you blatantly refuse to and instead, decide to foist even more advice on what you believe I could have done to prevent my own rape. Perhaps you are incapable of not trying to lecture me or mansplain what you think I should be doing to not be raped, but your advice and your commentary in regards to rape prevention is wholly unwelcome. And instead of stopping, you have decided to try to shame me about my apparent lack of rape prevention strategies.
Is that clear enough for you?
Remember, we’re all rape prevention advocates. Advocates don’t impose their will on others, they suggest a course of action and you can either accept it or not. Is your will so weak that mere suggestion is sufficient to wrest control your behavior?
And when someone tells you to stop, you stop.
Asking me if my will is so weak because I don't buy into your rape prevention advocacy to the point where you suggest I keep a gun in my house? No, really, what kind of sick and twisted little man are you? Because this isn't you trying to make me feel even more guilty about what happened to me? What? Because I don't do what you think I should be doing or because I refuse to take note of what you believe I should be doing, I am weak willed?
If you can’t stomach the content necessary to facilitate a discussion in part dedicated to the topic of rape prevention advocacy, then you best not participate in it. No one is going out of their way to intentionally offend you, it’s just inevitable that this specific content will continue to surface in the natural course of the discussion.
Oh really. So further attempt to silence me, make me out to be weak because I won't do or accept what you say. What was it that you said? You aren't going to stop until I agree with you or something?
You were asked to stop, and it was explained to you. Instead of respecting that request, you pushed further, listed what you feel would have been appropriate to have stopped me from being raped and then have the cheek to be offended when I explain to you just how your condescending and offensive manner is coming across.. See, men like you is why women feel ashamed to come forward, because you are so creepy that you feel you know better than they do about what is affecting them, so much so that you decide to mansplain what they should have really been doing to prevent being raped.
The whole e point of security measures are so you can sleep at night, and if hiring guards is a practical solution considering your means, then it would reasonable to do so.
Unbelievable.
Are you feeling guilt over some sense of not providing adequate security? Are you possibly coming to the realization that you might have some control in regards to the recurrence of such an incident?
Are you shitting me?
What kind of twisted man are you?
No dumbass, I am not feeling guilty because you don't think I lived up to the rape prevention ideal.
Properly trained guard and watch dogs will alert you regardless of an intruders familiarity.
Yes, because it's practical to have trained guard dogs patrolling my suburban back yard as rape prevention.
That seems to be a bit of a contradiction, that you have a very good system that failed to alert you.
Here's the part you haven't quite grasped yet. The rape prevention advocacy you have been mansplaining to me would not have stopped my rape. Why? Because it only deals with and covers stranger rape. If I was to adhere to the standards you expect of women, then I would simply withdraw completely from society and never ever speak to or have anything to do with any males again.
Many elderly individuals wear
personal alert devices in case of unattended emergencies. My wife and daughter both sleep with their smartphones for the purpose of wake alarms and easy access for communication. And used in conjunction with dogs and a functional security system, there would be ample time to hit the panic button, especially if it were the default screen setting.
I'm sorry, are you saying your wife and daughter sleep with their phones?
Okay then.. I can sort of see why they would.
No, I don't sleep with my phone. I don't think I should be made to sleep with my phone. In fact, I don't know anyone who sleeps with their phones. Frankly, it's kind of weird that they do that.
I guess your government has tied your hands in regards to personal protection devices. Go lobby for their legalization.
Why should I keep weapons in my home?
Are you aware that having weapons is more likely to result in those weapons being used against the victim? Why would you advocate women arm themselves in such a way when it is more than likely going to result in their being further harmed or endangered?
If your self defense skills were inadequate, strive to improve them.
Are you serious?
Because right now, you are going out of your way to shame me for not having prevented being raped.
I am going to ask you one last time. Stop.
Every woman or man has to assess their own relative risk. If my wife and daughter were to consider me such a risk, then it would be prudent for them to take relevant precautions. My wife complains that she doesn’t get enough anyway, so I might be the one needing to take defensive action.
Not true, many of the prevention techniques that were linked would have equal value for men as well, but because the vast majority of rape victims are women, many were tailored to address the associated habits of women. Basically though, the preventative measures regarding violent assault are the same for both men and woman, which are essentially awareness and avoidance of hazardous situations and reasonably maximizing one’s deterrence and self defense capabilities.
Frankly, after this last conversation with you, I get that you're that type to lecture women and treat rape to be that kind of a joke, but you're not a very funny man. Well, the only people who would find you funny would be those who thinks women should be made to feel guilty or ashamed for having been raped.
GeoffP said:
I did not quote the post in any limited fashion; this is another example of weasel wording by you.
You cut out half of the post.. Twice, even after I pointed out what did apply to you. Why did you do that?
And that is entirely correct. I do not know you. I do not know your experiences. I do not know much of anything about you with any real certainty, and I do not wish to know. Tiassa feels that the experiences of a victim place her or him a 'valence' closer to the issue. That might be so, but it is my position that it confers nothing to the discussion of the concepts. It has nothing to do with the issues I was attempting to discuss pages and pages ago until you had another grande mal freakout, which occurred in the first few pages.
Firstly, you know full well who I am just as I know full well who you are and we know about each other's families. I even know what kind of funny college comedy videos you like because you used to send them to me
all the time. Perhaps you have lied, well, considering how dishonest you are in the general forum, that may very well be the case. But that does not mean that I have.
Secondly, attempting to discredit what someone went through, attempting to deny it even happened because it does not fit into your rape is about sex and about biology hypothesis and then insulting me because I dared to contradict your pathetically incorrect hypothesis with not only my experience which clearly demonstrates you are wrong, but with countless studies and papers which all clearly contradict you, it has everything to do with the issues you were attempting to discuss. When you bring rape down to being just about sex, wanting sex or having a biological urge to breed, as you repeatedly asserted as your home grown and totally unsubstantiated hypothesis, you reduce rape to being a non-issue. After all, it's just about sex. And you also provide the perfect excuse for the rapist and you directly place the onus on the victim to not be raped. As if it is just about sex or the biological urge to breed, then the onus shifts to her to not be attractive to her rapist. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is what happens.
Bullshit? Your claims in the sentence above regarding your 'silencing' and 'abuse' are bullshit. You were neither silenced, nor abused. It is a classic display of your inequity with ethics and language to claim that you were. The link you attempt to cram into this debate refers to negative responses to speaking out, not null ones. Your meter on such commentary has run out, and further comments of this nature will simply not be addressed.
Really, so when you suggested I stopped talking because of what I had experienced and told me I had no place in this thread, what were you doing exactly?
I mean I get it, you are that type to spout bullshit and then when caught and cornered about your behaviour, you deny you even did it.
I wouldn't expect you to apologize for anything at all, really, since you seem to have neither honour, nor honesty, nor integrity. I would expect any other normal person to apologise for calling me a 'rape advocate' but, again, you appear to lack the higher facilities of integrity that would normally encourage such a choice. For example: you have deliberately misrepresented what the apology in all rights is actually about, choosing instead to pretend that I have demanded an apology for "attempt[ing] to discredit, deny and minimise what [you] went through". This is classic thread lawyering - it is utterly clear what the apology should be rendered for - and so I am not particularly hopeful that you will suddenly locate your seemingly discarded sense of ethics.
When you reduce rape to being just about sex and a biological urge to breed, when you openly and deliberately support and encourage those who defend mass murderers who killed because they felt they were denied the women they feel they deserved, when you openly and deliberately support rape prevention ideology that ties in directly to rape being just about sex and which then places the onus on the woman to not be raped, then you are a rape advocate and rape apologist. When you start pondering if the right term is even "rape" and then try to reduce it to be something else, you are a rape apologist. When you minimise rape and compare it to a moose humping a knot in a tree to get off and compare it to rape as being just about sex because the rapist has that urge, then you are a rape apologist and a rape advocate.
Is that clear enough for you?
This is why I will not apologise to you. I don't apologise to people who make excuses for rape.
That is irrelevant, so long as you deliberately maintain a veil of fabrication over my reputation. And again, no weasel wording: I did not "give my word", not that I expect you would necessarily understand or honour such a concept.
If you have any relevant contributions to make, please don't hesitate to post them.
You are right. You didn't give your word. Well even if you had, you word is worth shit anyway since we all know just how much of a dishonest hack you are. You had a "plan". You don't do well with plans, do you?
Perhaps you should write it down and keep reminding yourself of it. Make it an exercise. I understand it will take you outside of your comfort zone and change is hard for you, but do try.