The Book of Mormon

A

Athelwulf

Rest in peace Kurt...
Registered Senior Member
   So I decide one night that I want to read the Book of Mormon. Why? Because I don't know much about Mormonism other than that Jesus came to America shortly after his resurrection and so you can't drink, can't jack off, blah blah.
   So I ask around. I find a friend who has the BoM and she lets me borrow it. It seems to be your standard BoM: it's annotated with little notes about what certain passages refer to; it has the additional Mormon writings (The Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price); and it has a pronunciation guide in the middle and an extensive index in the back. Pretty nifty.

   I start reading it, naturally starting in the beginning with the First Book of Nephi. Seems to be about how this one guy Nephi's dad saw Jesus in a vision six hundred years before his birth, and about how Nephi himself saw the rough spiritual history of the people living in the Americas. It's interesting.
   But I can't help but notice some problems with the language of the book. Everything else aside, "it came to pass that" the book was growing "exceedingly" redundant as I read on, about which I spake unto others in my "manners of language". And what's a 19th-century guy like Smith writing in 16th-century English for?
   I predict that the book will take me a while to read. So I start thinking about how I can get myself a free BoM so that my friend can have her copy back sometime before I die.

   So I walk down to the nearby LDS church one Sunday morning, right? I figured there was the place to get a free BoM. Here's the basic gist of the conversation I have with an Elder at the church:

Athelwulf: "Yeah, uh, I heard I can get a free Book of Mormon here..."
Elder: "Yeah, sure, here you go. *Hands Athelwulf free copy of BoM*"

   I somehow expected there to be more of a challenge. I mean, you aren't usually just given something, even if you ask for it nicely. You know, they might've needed to talk to the Bishop or something, tried to work out a deal, pulled a few strings, taken advantage of some favors owed to them... But not in the LDS church, apparently.
   No matter though. At least I have a free BoM. That's mine. And mine is that free BoM.

   I noticed something about my copy: inside, it looks identical to the copy I'm borrowing from my friend. Mine includes paintings of Jesus and Joseph Smith and all, and mine's missing the other two Mormon writings – but I could scan any given page from both, and you would not be able to tell the difference. I guess that's organized religion for ya.

   But anyway, I'm rambling. Let's talk about the BoM. The old thread seems to have died, and it's very long. I think a fresh thread would be in order. Is that guy Brutus still here, by the way? It would be great if we still had our resident Mormon to contribute to the thread.
 
I obtained a free BoM from some website. I tried to ask Mormons why these people in America were using Jesus' name and being far more specific than the prophets of the middle east.
 
Arkantos said:
I obtained a free BoM from some website. I tried to ask Mormons why these people in America were using Jesus' name and being far more specific than the prophets of the middle east.
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My guess, if I understand you, is because it was written after the "fact", and so he could actually be referred to by name.
 
How many dealers have you worked with, Athel? Don't you know that the first hit is always free? Even Scientologists will give you a free "personality profile", though that's almost always just a trap for them to throw an advertisement at you, saying you need their special auditing therapy for hundreds of dollars an hour.
 
Mystech said:
How many dealers have you worked with, Athel? Don't you know that the first hit is always free? Even Scientologists will give you a free "personality profile", though that's almost always just a trap for them to throw an advertisement at you, saying you need their special auditing therapy for hundreds of dollars an hour.
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Every hit I've had was free. ;) :D

I remember taking that personality test. I don't remember the results. But yeah, you're pretty much right about that.
 
From my little expose to the BoM, it seems that as a "holy book" it is the least grounded in reality, or the hardest to even interpret with rational ideas.

The Bible (Christian or Jewish) might refer to miracles, but they are easily demystified as man's recorded reaction to nature. I know even less about the Quran, so I won't try to interpret. But it seems that you can take any drunken man, have him tell you his wildest dreams, of course throwing in his crazy sex driven desires, and you can duplicate (in kind) the BoM.

Just my opinion.

Max
 
Two neatly dressed people delivered mine to me one sunny day for free. Have you ever been to their indoctrination centers? I did once, and they put me in this little movie theater and showed some unbelievable stuff. It all seems to be easily discounted by anthropologists and DNA testing, but whatever, they are mostly nice people.

My favorite character in the BoM is Korihor, the guy who doubts. I don't think the people that gave it to me would appreciate that.
 
Athelwulf said:
So I walk down to the nearby LDS church one Sunday morning, right? I figured there was the place to get a free BoM. Here's the basic gist of the conversation I have with an Elder at the church:

Athelwulf: "Yeah, uh, I heard I can get a free Book of Mormon here..."
Elder: "Yeah, sure, here you go. *Hands Athelwulf free copy of BoM*"

I somehow expected there to be more of a challenge. I mean, you aren't usually just given something, even if you ask for it nicely. You know, they might've needed to talk to the Bishop or something, tried to work out a deal, pulled a few strings, taken advantage of some favors owed to them... But not in the LDS church, apparently.
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Mmm.
I got the KJV Bible as well.

However, I had eventually burnt both the BofM and the KJV Bible.
That was my own private Holy Inquisition. The flames went high.


I noticed something about my copy: inside, it looks identical to the copy I'm borrowing from my friend. Mine includes paintings of Jesus and Joseph Smith and all, and mine's missing the other two Mormon writings – but I could scan any given page from both, and you would not be able to tell the difference. I guess that's organized religion for ya.
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All English editions (that are in use) have the same pagination. It's all quite wonderfully done, you can't miss anything.

They also have a special edition for the elderly, the size of A4 with letters the size of 12 or 14 points, so it's easy to read.


But anyway, I'm rambling. Let's talk about the BoM.
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It filled me with anger.

I read the BofM, studiously, underlined, made comments, I used to know many passages by heart. And I prayed, like it says in the end -- and nothing happened. A few months later, I burnt the things.

My favourite character was Enos, I was reminded of Job. I saw myself in that. But I despaired, I didn't feel like waiting all my life for that special moment -- while in the meantime, doing as if I believed.
 
Athelwulf

Just came across this new post. I'm glad you had no problem getting your copy of the Book of Mormon. Missionaries are happy to give them out. Now as far as getting all the books in one, you might be able to get one through the local bishop or purchase one somewhere.

Some people wonder why the book of Mormon is written in old English, the same as the Bible. Remember the book of Mormon is a translation of ancient writings into English. Joseph Smith chose to use the King James Version style language to translate the gold plates because that is the language he associated with scripture. Obviously that is not the style they actually spoke in BOM times, the same as Jesus did not speak in old English either.

As for the BOM people using the name of Jesus Christ before he was born, we do not know weather they knew of the name Jesus or not. They could have called him the Messiah, Jehovah or whatever. When Joseph Smith came across a character referring to Jesus he may very well have used that name because he knew who the people were referring to.

Keep up the reading and pray about it. That is the only true way you can come to know whether the Book of Mormon is the word of God or not.
 
Spidergoat.

Faith must come before absolute knowledge, otherwise it wouldn't benefit you anyway.
 
So if I had faith, I could see them? What if I was a Christian interested in Mormonism, but I wasn't sure?
 
Brutus, thanks for coming by my thread.

Now as far as getting all the books in one, you might be able to get one through the local bishop or purchase one somewhere.
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I can certainly look into that, because honestly, I feel sorta gypped because I didn't get the D&C and PoGP. It's not a tragety, but it would've been nice to have all the LDS canonical writings for myself.

Some people wonder why the book of Mormon is written in old English, the same as the Bible. Remember the book of Mormon is a translation of ancient writings into English. Joseph Smith chose to use the King James Version style language to translate the gold plates because that is the language he associated with scripture. Obviously that is not the style they actually spoke in BOM times, the same as Jesus did not speak in old English either.
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That makes sense. I wonder, however, about the redundant language. It's not all that bad really, but a few passages really jump out at me for their redundancies. I'll give two here:
<Blockquote><Small>1 Nephi 9:2 &mdash; And now, as I have spoken concerning these plates, behold they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, after mine own name; and these plates also are called the plates of Nephi.

1 Nephi 18:2 &mdash; Now I, Nephi, did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men.</Small></Blockquote>
As for the BOM people using the name of Jesus Christ before he was born, we do not know weather they knew of the name Jesus or not. They could have called him the Messiah, Jehovah or whatever. When Joseph Smith came across a character referring to Jesus he may very well have used that name because he knew who the people were referring to.
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This also makes sense.

What you said to me and to spidergoat interests me:
Keep up the reading and pray about it. That is the only true way you can come to know whether the Book of Mormon is the word of God or not.
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Faith must come before absolute knowledge, otherwise it wouldn't benefit you anyway.
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Why is that?
 
water,

I got the KJV Bible as well.

However, I had eventually burnt both the BofM and the KJV Bible.
That was my own private Holy Inquisition. The flames went high.
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I guess Bible paper is extremely flamable? :p I wonder what it's made from. It's so thin. It has a different texture, even a different smell.

All English editions (that are in use) have the same pagination. It's all quite wonderfully done, you can't miss anything.
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Standardization has its perks.

It filled me with anger.

I read the BofM, studiously, underlined, made comments, I used to know many passages by heart. And I prayed, like it says in the end -- and nothing happened. A few months later, I burnt the things.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't burn my copies; I want them for reference.

My favourite character was Enos, I was reminded of Job. I saw myself in that. But I despaired, I didn't feel like waiting all my life for that special moment -- while in the meantime, doing as if I believed.
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I wish I could read that thing faster, so I can figure out my favorite character.
 
I remember kids thinking they were cool because they used to rip up bibles or light bibles on fire. It's amazing that these young kids had so much hatred for religion at that age. It must have been their parents or something instilling them with anti-religious bigotry.
 
Athelwulf

Thanks for responding.

The style of writing is called Chiasimus and is present in many ancient Hebrew and Greek documents. It is a poetic style where you end a sentence by repeating the beginning only in opposite order. The Old Testament contains many examples of it. Such as Genesis 9:6: "Whoever sheds The blood of Man, By Man shall His blood be shed."

A good article about Chiasmus in the book of Mormon read Jeff Lindsay's article about it.

Some have suggested that the fact Chiasmus is contained in the BOM is evidence of it's authenticity since the writing style was not well known in the days of Joseph Smith.
 
Spidergoat

Faith may not make you physically see the plates but it would lead you to a knowledge of their truthfullness. Faith is like a seed. It must be planted and taken care of. It takes time to build faith into absolute knowledge. Sometimes it can take a lifetime. Faith as small as a mustard seed will go along way. Jesus said it is enough to command a mountain to move.
 
Arkantos

It is a possibility that Joseph Smith's use of Chiasmus was inadvertant in his translation of from the ancient record. But the amount contained in the Book of Mormon suggests the style was contained in the original record and not encorperated into the BOM by Smith, just like the Chiasmus came out while the Bible was being translated from Greek and Hebrew into Old English. While the Bible was being translated the style very well could have also been added inadvertanlty. Either way it is evidence of the Book of Mormon having been a translation of an ancient document rather just made up out of whole cloth.
 
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