The Bible

Exploradora said:
I thought this was a valid question, but no one who believes the bible is inerrant has answered. Please enlighten me- I really am not trying to be sarcastic.
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It is my intuition that the bible is errant. I cannot believe in the God presented in the OT and the NT. Let alone that this is a loving God. There are too many things that do not fit together and seem the creations of separate and fallaible human minds. It also seems clear to me that the Bible is written by people limited by their cultures (say around issues around women) and certain periods of history. Their ideas of the good and God and evil reflect that. I see people go through all sorts of mental and verbal gymnastics to justify contradictory impressions of God in the Bible and things like the Bibles approval of slavery, but for me these gymnastics do not work. This does not mean I throw everything out that is in there. And please don't assume I am an athiest or have trouble with 'supernatural' phenomena. I am not and I don't.
 
Grantywanty said:
It is my intuition that the bible is errant. I cannot believe in the God presented in the OT and the NT. Let alone that this is a loving God. There are too many things that do not fit together and seem the creations of separate and fallaible human minds. It also seems clear to me that the Bible is written by people limited by their cultures (say around issues around women) and certain periods of history. Their ideas of the good and God and evil reflect that. I see people go through all sorts of mental and verbal gymnastics to justify contradictory impressions of God in the Bible and things like the Bibles approval of slavery, but for me these gymnastics do not work. This does not mean I throw everything out that is in there. And please don't assume I am an athiest or have trouble with 'supernatural' phenomena. I am not and I don't.
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Well my friend, the problem is that noone or no word can really explain God, not even the Bible.

Is like trying to explain a sunset to a blind person.
 
Grantywanty said:
It is my intuition that the bible is errant. I cannot believe in the God presented in the OT and the NT. Let alone that this is a loving God. There are too many things that do not fit together and seem the creations of separate and fallaible human minds. It also seems clear to me that the Bible is written by people limited by their cultures (say around issues around women) and certain periods of history. Their ideas of the good and God and evil reflect that. I see people go through all sorts of mental and verbal gymnastics to justify contradictory impressions of God in the Bible and things like the Bibles approval of slavery, but for me these gymnastics do not work. This does not mean I throw everything out that is in there. And please don't assume I am an athiest or have trouble with 'supernatural' phenomena. I am not and I don't.
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The ancient hebrews were a VERY patriarchial,harsh society, hence the depiction of women as inferior and God as a tempermental bully. Yahweh was essentially a tribal war God worshipped along with others before the priesthood pushed him as the "one true god".I find some spirituality in the OT, but very little. The teachings of Jesus in the NT however are vastly superior and fall in line with other greats, like Krishna,Budha,etc.
Just think of the biblical God as one of many Gods/Goddesses invented by man to reflect what THEY THOUGHT God was(or should be).
If you study the spiritual system of the ancient egyptians you will definetely see a much more respectfull attitude towards women as Goddesses like Aset,Hetheru and others were very much loved and held in high esteem.
But alas their cultural attitudes were quite different than the bronze age hebrews.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Well my friend, the problem is that noone or no word can really explain God, not even the Bible.

Is like trying to explain a sunset to a blind person.
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How do you know?

I mean, clearly you believe your god is this complex that it defies explanation, but how do you know if no one or "no word can really explain" then how is it you know it to be true?

Since you can't possibly know the qualities of something that cannot be explained, there is no obvious reason to accept such a being exists. The reasoning is circular.
 
nova900 said:
The ancient hebrews were a VERY patriarchial,harsh society, hence the depiction of women as inferior and God as a tempermental bully. Yahweh was essentially a tribal war God worshipped along with others before the priesthood pushed him as the "one true god".I find some spirituality in the OT, but very little. The teachings of Jesus in the NT however are vastly superior and fall in line with other greats, like Krishna,Budha,etc.
Just think of the biblical God as one of many Gods/Goddesses invented by man to reflect what THEY THOUGHT God was(or should be).
If you study the spiritual system of the ancient egyptians you will definetely see a much more respectfull attitude towards women as Goddesses like Aset,Hetheru and others were very much loved and held in high esteem.
But alas their cultural attitudes were quite different than the bronze age hebrews.
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M*W: Such insight! I'm impressed!
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
The Bible is not a legitimate source of information, it has been violated. But it is not completely errant either, I still read it, and will continue reading it.
Why do I read a bogus source of information? Because it still contains the wisdom of the old prophets, the parables haven´t changed, and the wisdom is still there...
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M*W: Imagine, if you will, two-thousand years from now, an advanced global civilization with technologies we couldn't even imagine today. Archeologists dig up what looked like an ancient box that may have been some sort of communications device. They study it and manage to get it to work which, with their advanced technology, was no big deal. They discover something called 'sciforums.com,' and they recognize this as some form of ancient electronic writing. They read the words and believe this contraption to be the inspired words of some ancient god called 'Dell'. Others archeologists, however, didn't believe Dell existed but believed this box to be a great source of wisdom.
 
SkinWalker said:
How do you know?
I mean, clearly you believe your god is this complex that it defies explanation, but how do you know if no one or "no word can really explain" then how is it you know it to be true?
Since you can't possibly know the qualities of something that cannot be explained, there is no obvious reason to accept such a being exists. The reasoning is circular.
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Again, about this subject, Osho can explain it better than I do, and it sums up the attitude of theists and atheists from my perspective:

"I will tell you an anecdote: One windy morning, just as the spring was ending, a snail started travelling upwards on a cherry tree. Some sparrows which were just on a neighboring oak started laughing, because it was not the season and there were no cherries on the tree, and this poor snail was making so much effort to reach the top. They laughed at his expense. Then one sparrow flew down, came near to the snail and said, `Darling, where are you going? There are no cherries yet on the tree.' But the snail never even paused; she continued her upward journey. Without pausing, the snail said, `But they will be there when I reach. They will be there when I reach there. It will take a long time for me to reach to the top, and by that time cherries will be there.'

God is not, but he will be there by the time you reach. It is not something which is already there -- it is never there. It is a growth. It is your own growth. When you reach to a point where you are totally conscious, God is. But don't argue. Rather than wasting your energy in arguing, use your energy in transforming yourself. And energy is not much. If you divert your energy into argument you can become a genius in arguing. But then you are wasting, it is at a great cost, because the same energy can become meditation. You can become a logician: you can make very logical arguments, you can find very convincing proofs or disproofs, but you will remain the same. Your arguments are not going to change you."

Osho - Vigyan Bhairav Tantra
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: Imagine, if you will, two-thousand years from now, an advanced global civilization with technologies we couldn't even imagine today. Archeologists dig up what looked like an ancient box that may have been some sort of communications device. They study it and manage to get it to work which, with their advanced technology, was no big deal. They discover something called 'sciforums.com,' and they recognize this as some form of ancient electronic writing. They read the words and believe this contraption to be the inspired words of some ancient god called 'Dell'. Others archeologists, however, didn't believe Dell existed but believed this box to be a great source of wisdom.
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Christianity was not discovered in the year 2000, it was born in the first century.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: What does christianity have to do with my post?
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Well, then call it the history of Jesus. It wasn´t born 2000 years after Jesus, but in the time Jesus was alive.

You are making an analogy on a hypothetical situation that has nothing to do with what happened with the history of Jesus.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Well, then call it the history of Jesus. It wasn´t born 2000 years after Jesus, but in the time Jesus was alive.

You are making an analogy on a hypothetical situation that has nothing to do with what happened with the history of Jesus.
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M*W: Yes, I know. What is your point? I wasn't referring in any way to Jesus, christianity, or anything about Jesus or what he is alleged to have done (i.e. all myth).

My analogy refers to communication 2000 years from now and how more advanced civilizations might view it. This has nothing to do with Jesus. You missed my point. It was a little story, an analogy, about how ancient communication will be perceived in the future. Don't over analyze it.
 
Exploradora said:
For those who believe the bible is inerrant, I have a question. How do you know this? Or do you really not know it, and just take it on faith? And, if you believe in science and the scientific method for some subjects, then how to you reconcile it with biblical accounts?
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Perhaps the most difficult task there is to reconcile what we don't know...with what we do know. It's almost no comparision at.

Secondly facts can be tempermental when it comes to events noone on Earth has every witnessed.

Thirdly the bible is a book with a clear lineage that doesn't present it's knowledge in folktale style. It gives us times and refrences to time in years and months. It has proved reliable there is no reason to believe it would not continue as such.

That kind of reliablitiy is foreign to Earth.
 
Saquist said:
Thirdly the bible is a book with a clear lineage that doesn't present it's knowledge in folktale style.
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M*W: Wrong. Folk tale it is. Myth it is.

It gives us times and refrences to time in years and months. It has proved reliable there is no reason to believe it would not continue as such.

That kind of reliablitiy is foreign to Earth.
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M*W: Those "times and references to times in years and months" is right. In fact, you've hit the nail smack dab on the head. The NT is an astrological calendar specifying "times and references ot times in years and months." That's what's clear.
 
I understand if you believe that, but you should not be threatened by mine.
As one of the Greatest books in the world, it has changed lives for those that read it and understood it's content.
 
Most 'believers' don't have a clue of what the bible says, they base their faith or belief in god on what their (religious) society has brainwashed into them.
 
That's true...but that's only after thousands of years captivity in the Roman Catholic church. They've been trained to listen not to discover. As a result churches aren't places of knowledge but of ignorance.
 
Saquist said:
That's true...but that's only after thousands of years captivity in the Roman Catholic church. They've been trained to listen not to discover. As a result churches aren't places of knowledge but of ignorance.
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I've asked this before with no response. Even if a Christian said, 'I don't know. Good question'. would be better than you, JimHR, James R, <insert any other Christian member here> just avoiding it:

Then why does a benevolent deity that wants His followers to choose him, allow supposed Christian movements to 'captivate' His children and not allow them to discover?

(I've asked this question before in the form of Him allowing his followers to add and choose and mistranslate all the books in the bible, which they have been)

Why does that question keep getting avoided???? Can any of you Christians not answer that?
 
There has only been one nation under God. Isreal

In that nation God controled much by law. He had an intimate relationship with his nation. Yet humans are imperfect; flawed. That relationship decaded.
The Isrealites denied Christ. As a result Israel lost favor with God...permanently

What was left...America...England...Germany. Were these nation under God?
No. None of them received God's devine approval. There is no nation on Earth following God.

And if they're not following God then they're following someone else. So the whole world is following someone else other than God.

That is why there are mistranslations and ommisions from the bible.
 
mikenostic said:
Then why does a benevolent deity that wants His followers to choose him, allow supposed Christian movements to 'captivate' His children and not allow them to discover?

Why does that question keep getting avoided???? Can any of you Christians not answer that?
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This maybe avoided by Christians, because it defies their beliefs, and may I say, very closed beliefs that for some, it cannot be open to more logical interpretations.

I believe that Jesus was a great master, one of the greatest ever. So I will answer your question from my perspective on Jesus.

Jesus never asked to be followed after his death, he NEVER asked to be adored as a divine being. Jesus tought people to follow Christ, always.

Christ is your cristalized inner-self. Once is free from a mind impaired by society´s judgement.
So always listen and always follow youself, that is what Jesus tought.
He was in fact Jesus Christ, because he achieved this.
 
In Cyprus, a Greek Orthodox Christian country suffering the schizophrenia of secularism, worship of materialism and practice of conspicuous consumption, there's an unwritten rule that you don't question the bible, the belief in Icons and saints (2 for every day of the year) or the priests. Even some villains cross themselves when they drive past a church. I'm not saying that there aren't any enlightened individuals who have plenty of doubts, but the lack of discussion is disconcerting
 
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