The Bible says: The Earth is flat!

Originally posted by Mogget
Yes they can. And I did read them. All this proves that back then people saw him as the son of Joseph, not as the son of G-d right? DId they retract that statement later on? If they thought he was the son of Joseph, then why can't I?

Look at Matt. 13:55. They thought that his father was Joseph, but that couldn't explain how he did the things he did and taught the things he taught.

In reality then Jesus is not a viable for Kingship through the Davidic line either way you look at it.

But if Joseph is reckoned as Mary's father's son in law, then Mary's inheritance is transferred to Joseph and from there to Jesus.


My earlier point was that tribal inheritance (including kingship) cannot be through the mother. Its only ever and always has been through the father.

If there are no sons then it can go through the daughter, but if and when she marries, then her inheritance is transferred to her husband. See Numbers 27:8
 
but that couldn't explain how he did the things he did and taught the things he taught.

The things he taught, were revealed to him by God, because he was a messenger.
The things he did-- miracles, were by permission from God.



"The Messiah (‘Issa) bin Marium, was no more than a Messenger, many who were Messengers have passed away before him. His mother (Mary) was a Sidiqah (believed in Words of Allah). Both of them used to eat food (as all other human beings). Look how We make the Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, examples) clear to them; yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth)." Al-Ma’idah (5:75)

Allah (SWT) mentions this to us in the concluding verses of Surat al-Ma’idah.

"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Ressurection):

‘O ‘Issa, son of Marium! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’’

He (‘Issa) will say: ‘Glory is to You (Alone)! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You surely, have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and (unseen).’

‘Never did I say to them except what You (Allah) commanded me to say: ‘Worship Allah, My Lord and Your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things.’

http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=547
 
so you read the bible or are these just quotes from another site? because i am sure if you would read the bible start to finish you will get a better understanding that the bible are just many stories for the simple minded, to get a better understanding of Christianity. is all good saying there are not 4 corners on the earth and the world is not flat, and you cant go to the ends of the world but as was touched on earlier it was an expression, to illustrate how much they would do for god, or something similar.
like i mean there are more stupid things in the bible, i mean on the first couple of pages it says, god created the world in 7 days, but when did that first day start? if there is no earth the sun would not be rising on it so how does that work.
 
So why is it that Mohammed never did miracles?
* shaking head * but my deear, Muhammad (peace be upon him) DID do miracles. There are literally thousands of them.
I'm going to take the lazy way out, & give you a link to one of my fav sites
http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=596

I'm sure you can proably find other articles on the topic as well.

But we must remember now, there was no competition between Jesus and Muhammad. We in this forum make it sound like a competition. It's not. They were both prophets, but different men, with different admirable traits and characterisitcs.
 
Originally posted by Vienna
So why is it that Mohammed never did miracles?
Is it because he was not the true messiah?
Why didn't God give Mohammed the gift of making miracles?

Mohammed (saw) never meant to be messiah, Jesus was, he was just a Prophet. Messiah was Jesus's title.
 
Originally posted by miss khan

But we must remember now, there was no competition between Jesus and Muhammad. We in this forum make it sound like a competition. It's not. They were both prophets, but different men, with different admirable traits and characterisitcs.

Miss Khan, did Jesus claim to be the Son of God?
 
So that link I showed you is wrong? How can you ignore all those references?
 
But the trinity is not in the original Bible, and Jesus being the son is intertwined with the Trinity concept.

The Anglican theologian J. H. Newman, (Church of Rome in 1845) wrote:
". . . the doctrines (that is, concerning Father, Son and Holy Spirit) have never been learned merely from Scripture" (The Arians of the 4th Century, p.50).
Dr. W. R. Matthews, Dean of St. Paul's, London:
". . . the doctrine of the Trinity . . . formed no part of the original message. St. Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed" (God in Christian Thought and Experience, p.180). (The italics in the above quotations are the present writer's.)

SO WHERE DID the trinity concept COME FROM??

The Nicene Creed, 325 A.D. (NOTE THE DATE!! 300 YEARS AFTER JESUS!), says
"the only begotten Son of God, begotten of his Father before all worlds . . . God of God, Very God of Very God, being of one substance with the Father . . . The Holy Ghost with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified . . ."
The Athanasian Creed, soon after 500 A.D. (500 YEARS LATER!!!) :
"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity . . . there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate . . ." All are declared to be eternal, "yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal". The Creed concludes with the ominous statement: "He that will be saved must think thus of the Trinity."

This new teaching created controversy for more than 100 years between church leaders. The official Doctrine of the Trinity was proclaimed in the 4th & 5th centuries, and its acceptance made obligatory.
(^^^^This is from the book : Jesus: God the Son or Son of God?^^^)

Here's a Christian priest who didnt believe Jesus was the son of God:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/05/08/ireland.priest/ <--------- jus a little side note :)

"In the Bible, "son" is a term expressing an intimate relationship with someone or something; basically, it indicates origin, but it is also used to express close association or identification with persons or things. Even when indicating origin, this term does not limit oneself to one's father and mother. One may be called the "son" of the following: his father and mother, his family, his tribe, his people, his place of birth (city or country), and the time or circumstance of his birth. The if "father-son" terminology is also used in connection with kings and their vassals or subjects, masters and servants, teachers and disciples, and almost any situation in which someone is subordinate to or dependent on someone else. The basic requirement of the "son" is to honour and obey his "father", but he should also love him and emulate him.
The term "son" is used in many other ways in the Bible, some of which are connected with origin but others of which mainly express some sort of association with or resemblance to persons or things. A large, somehow homogeneous group may be called "sons" (occupational and ethnic groups especially). Sometimes characteristics or qualities themselves are personified and regarded as having "sons" - those who possess that same characteristic or quality. Still also other uses of the term "son" in the Bible reflect the versatile and imaginative use of this term especially in the Hebrew language." Jesus as the Son of God by Luther Engelbrecht & Ernest Hahn

"Son" in Bible can mean lots of things!!:
1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

"Servant" and "son" are very closely related in the Bible. This does not mean that Jesus, who was the servant of God, was His son.
 
If this is the case, that Jesus claimed that he was only the servant of God, then why did everyone want to stone him and/or tore their clothes when he said it? Obviously it meant to them that he was claiming equality with God.
 
Most christians when they say that Jesus is the Son of God do not mean that Jesus is the biological son of God or that Jesus came after God. While Nicene creed was developed in 325AD, there was no mistake in Jesus' sonship or Jesus being divine by the early church. The only controversy at Nicene was arianism. This was the belief that Jesus was a god lower than the Father and this is basically polytheism. The doctrin of the Trinity, however, contends that God's nature is one. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
 
Originally posted by Vienna
Love the link.....lol!

This is like Beckham saying he doesn't believe in soccer.

Joking apart, the comments from this priest doesn't surprise me. Everything that the Church and Christianity stands for is being torn apart in the UK, I have said this before.
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M*W: No, I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE! Quit plagarizing ME, Mr. Little Weenie.
 
What's being torn apart is the apostasy that Christendom, the back-row birds that are so many of the "Christians" of today. To many Christ is nothing more than a ritual, a mechanistic routine where they are about as moved as Everest. This is what being torn apart. So shall it be and so be it.
 
Originally posted by jcarl
What's being torn apart is the apostasy that Christendom, the back-row birds that are so many of the "Christians" of today. To many Christ is nothing more than a ritual, a mechanistic routine where they are about as moved as Everest. This is what being torn apart. So shall it be and so be it.
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M*W: Call it what you want, Christendom is dying all over the world.
 
Originally posted by Vienna
Yeah you did, you said it first M*W, you get the teampoint.

Anyways my country is nothing much to write about, Mr Blair and the government is nothing much to write about. Political correctness has taken a hold over the country, no free speech. The latest law to be passed is that it will be an offence to say anything against the government, democracy in the UK has gone. The country is full of anti-monarchists. Anything that is half decent gets slagged off by the British gutter press, then there's the BBC propagandist news. Blah blah ramble.
Christianity in the UK is on its way out, and the schools here teach crap. Blah ramble *Gets down from stool*

Basically M*W I haven't anything left to speak up for anymore, hmmm, this might as well be my last post. *Thinks* Yep might as well be going. So if I have upset anyone at all with my previous posts - tough! :D

Anyways to you M*W have a brilliant Christmas and a peaceful new year - and that goes to everyone on these boards.

Cheers
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M*W: Sounds like "Mr. Average" has found himself living in an "average" country. Too friggin bad.
 
Originally posted by Vienna
*Edit*

M*W - Drop dead bitch

I wish everyone (but Not M*W) on these boards a Merry Christmas and very peaceful new year.

My last post to you all

I'm outta here

Vienna
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M*W: It's not surprising that Mr. Averagewienie would be intimidated by a strong woman like me who is not afraid to express my convictions. I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate family, and I am sure we will have a wonderful holiday being with each other without any mention of Jesus. I do wish, however, that Mr. Averagewienie and his ordinary family have their usually mundane holiday together this season with the promise of another mediocre year to come. He must face the fact that he is just a run-of-the-mill fence-sitter. He lives his life in the middle-of-the-road and believes he can see the truth from there. "There are none so blind as those who cannot see."
 
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