The Bible. Myth or Reality?

[spidergoat]

That's not what I am saying. But what you are saying is that anything in a book that you personally deem true must be true, and anything you deem false must be false.

It's not simply a personal judgement, I have standards of evidence.

Yet you have a problem with the existence of God? Though you deem our 'universe' capable of producing something that is, for all intents and purposes, God?

Variations in natural laws do not constitute the supernatural.

So, if natural explanations fail, then believing anything beyond those failing natural explanations is stupidity? Why is that exactly?

Because nothing else that is supernatural has ever been discovered.

Personally I find it more reasonable to conclude that something exists outside of our 'naturalist' bubble, rather than trying to bend and contort the rules and laws of nature to somehow allow the existence of an infinite universe or a natural origin of said natural universe.

An infinite universe doesn't violate any laws of nature.

Calling something 'fictional' as the primary argument of its incorrectness is exactly what a bias against the supernatural is.

My argument isn't that I'm assuming it's fictional. It could be true or it could be fiction. Given that there is no evidence for the Bible being historically accurate, and plenty of evidence that it isn't, I wouldn't give it any credibility as an accurate rendition of historical truth. Also, it's well known among scholars that ancient writers didn't let facts get in the way of a good story. They just didn't have the same attitude that modern writers do to separate fiction from non-fiction.

I distinguish that which I believe from that which I don't believe, just like every other human being ever.

Not an answer. Why do you believe one thing and not another?

I'm not the one claiming it's false because it's miraculous.

Me either. I'm saying there's no reason to believe it because it's only a book.

The only claim I make is that I believe the Bible...

Why do you believe it?

 

[sideshowbob]

The fact that you think they can be detected like pigs, or flying pigs, shows that either you don't anything about the subject, you are presupposing a concept of God that is not actually believed in, or the subject of any God-conscious religious group or organisation.

As I've said, I'm using your concept of God.

That fact that you doggedly stick to this ideal, in-spite of the nature of the subject being explained to you over and over again. Tells me that you don't want God to exist. That's up to you.

On the contrary, I think it would be nice if God did exist.

What methodologies have you used thus far?

As I've said, I'm using the same methodologies that I would use to detect anything. I have asked you what methodologies I should be using. If there are any, I'll be happy to try them.

 

[Greatest I am]

WHat is written in the old testament is many of Jewish wars , which might have nothing to do with God but human behaviour and human interpretation of natural desastres . Many evils we human bring upon ourselves by attempting to submit each other .

Really!
Nothing to do with God.

Regards
DL

 

[Jan Ardena]

As I've said, I'm using your concept of God.

No you're not.

On the contrary, I think it would be nice if God did exist.

God does exist, and you deny His attributes.
You don't want God to exist.

As I've said, I'm using the same methodologies that I would use to detect anything. I have asked you what methodologies I should be using. If there are any, I'll be happy to try them.

Why would you do that?
Do you know what spirit means?

jan.

 

[Greatest I am]

Because he knows no better. Pity.

Yet scriptures are clear that God decides who will believe and who will not.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe there is only one God We do a lot in the name of God , We all like that God be on our side. I believe God allows man trough nature to do harm to our own kind , because our disobedience .

Strange that we have laws against just sitting back and watching evil or crime happen.

Seems that your God is not nearly as moral as secular law.

Would you sit back and let a rape happen the way your God does?

If so then you are as vile, in terms of morals, as your God.

Regards
DL

 

[sideshowbob]

As I've said, I'm using your concept of God.

No you're not.

I'm trying to. You don't seem very clear yourself on what your concept of God is.

God does exist, and you deny His attributes.

I'm not denying anything. I'm trying to pin down what you think God's attributes are.

You don't want God to exist.

You don't know what I want. You can believe I don't want God to exist, if that makes you happy, but it isn't true.

As I've said, I'm using the same methodologies that I would use to detect anything. I have asked you what methodologies I should be using. If there are any, I'll be happy to try them.

Why would you do that?

You should stop assuming that I don't want to find God and just honestly answer the questions.

Do you know what spirit means?

Tell us what you think it means and we'll go on from there.

 

[Jan Ardena]

How would you do it? By navel-contemplating?

I wouldn't go looking for it in the first place.

jan.

 

[sideshowbob]

I wouldn't go looking for it in the first place.

Jesus said, "Seek and ye shall find." How do you expect to find something without looking for it?

 

[Jan Ardena]

I'm trying to. You don't seem very clear yourself on what your concept of God is.

Are you kidding me?

I'm not denying anything. I'm trying to pin down what you think God's attributes are.

Do you accept that God is pure spirit?

You don't know what I want. You can believe I don't want God to exist, if that makes you happy, but it isn't true.

That's not how you come across.

You should stop assuming that I don't want to find God and just honestly answer the questions.

Why would you look for God the same way you would look for pigs?
Do you think God is a material being?

Tell us what you think it means and we'll go on from there.

I think you should find out for yourself. If as you say, you want God to exist, then here is a good place to start.
Let me know what you think.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jesus said, "Seek and ye shall find." How do you expect to find something without looking for it?

It is how you seek that matters.

Oh! You're quoting the Bible.
Well how about this. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.

jan.

 

[sideshowbob]

Are you kidding me?

No, I'm not. How about adjusting your attitude and stop making assumptions about me?

If somebody asks you to clarify, clarify. What, exactly is your concept of God?

Do you accept that God is pure spirit?

How could I? We haven't established what "pure spirit" is, nor have we established that God exists. You might as well ask if I accept that flying pigs are pure flerbend.

Why would you look for God the same way you would look for pigs?

I keep asking you, How else?

Do you think God is a material being?

If there is any such thing as a non-material being, how would we detect it? Be specific.

 

[sideshowbob]

It is how you seek that matters.

Which is why I keep asking you, How do you seek? Be specific.

Oh! You're quoting the Bible.
Well how about this. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.

You're the one who (supposedly) believes the Bible. If you do, you shouldn't be contradicting Jesus and expecting me to find something without looking for it.

 

[Jan Ardena]

If somebody asks you to clarify, clarify. What, exactly is your concept of God?

The Supreme Cause of ALL Causes. I'm quite sure I've written this at least twice in both the threads you and I are discussing in.
This is my working definition, and has become my concept.

How could I? We haven't established what "pure spirit" is, nor have we established that God exists. You might as well ask if I accept that flying pigs are pure flerbend.

You mean you haven't put God, pure, spirit, into google and see what comes up?
I'm surprised. You must be unwilling. That being the case there's nothing I can do.

I keep asking you, How else?

I understand that, but why would you look for God in that way, unless you thought God was material.
I would start looking at writings about God, and study scriptures. In this way you would have some understanding of the difference between God, and pigs. It could be a start. Let me know how you get on.

If there is any such thing as a non-material being, how would we detect it? Be specific.

Spiritually. The very component you have no idea of.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Sideshow,

C.S.Lewis makes for a good read.

jan.

 

[sideshowbob]

The Supreme Cause of ALL Causes. I'm quite sure I've written this at least twice in both the threads you and I are discussing in.
This is my working definition, and has become my concept.

We've been through why that's unworkable: If everything needs a cause, there can't be an uncaused cause and you've defined God out of existence. If anything doesn't need a cause, there's no logical need for a God. Your concept is too wishy-washy to be of any use.

You mean you haven't put God, pure, spirit, into google and see what comes up?

Why would I consult Google to find out what you think?

You must be unwilling.

But you're the one who's being evasive. You seem to be either unwilling or unable to discuss the topic honestly.

I understand that, but why would you look for God in that way, unless you thought God was material.

When there's only one way to look, how can you do anything else? If there is another way to look for God, for God's sake tell us what it is.

I would start looking at writings about God, and study scriptures.

Been there, done that.

In this way you would have some understanding of the difference between God, and pigs.

So how would I distinguish between the Bible and Animal Farm?

Spiritually. The very component you have no idea of.

How do you expect anybody to use a methodology that they have no idea of?

Come on. At least try to make an honest effort. All you're saying is that you have to believe before you can believe. That's circular nonsense.

 

[sideshowbob]

Sideshow,

C.S.Lewis makes for a good read.

jan.

Been there, done that. Good fiction, unconvincing theology.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Been there, done that. Good fiction, unconvincing theology.

I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you.
But if something comes up....

jan.

 

[sideshowbob]

I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you.

That's what I've been saying: there's no substance to your meanderings.

 

[cosmictraveler]

WHat is written in the old testament is many of Jewish wars , which might have nothing to do with God but human behaviour and human interpretation of natural desastres . Many evils we human bring upon ourselves by attempting to submit each other .

So that God is not the God that you believe in? Then why do so many believe in the Old Testament with the God found there? To many Gods make people wonder which is the real one wouldn't you think?