The Bible, Literal or Allegorical?

duendy said:
ok, we are exposing biblical hypocrisy and literalism. but i also want to expose the CURRENT scientific paradigm to. For as explained somewhere else, the birth of modern science grew out of deep dissatisfaction with the superstitious, dogmatic, and violent church. Many scientists may be not being aware of the church's propaganda nd complete suppression of pagan beliefs

one of the pagan beliefs was contact ith the 'dead', with the ancestors. this belief was much demonized by the christian church and had been also in the O.T

Now materialistic science also dismisses this very ancient primal understanding. for example the Australian Aboriginees Dreatime as all about enering the dimension of the magical realm of the ancestors etc
But now, white-coated scientists when hearing about such as this demand labotary conditions so as to 'prove' it

Can we not see the gross incongruence of this suggestion? i mean take dancing. would you like to dance in a sterile laboratory, probably with animal vivisection going on next door?......would you--if you do--like to have a Trip--as in hallucinogenic Trip there--make love there. etc etc? yes? no?...if no, then why do you suppose any thing really magical would want to happen in such soulless conditions...?
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Sorry Duendy the 60s have been over for 35 years :m:
 
Brutus1964 said:
Sorry Duendy the 60s have been over for 35 years :m:
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That is reponse is well tired. It is a similar response--so as to ridicule and shut up--as is the accusation of being a 'conspiracy theorist' if one begins dicussing the corruption of the status quo.

Look, what happened in the 1960s wasn't unique to those times. It was a pattern that has been with us sicnce the rise of patraircahl civilization, whee the latter tries to suppress pagan beliefs and practices. THAt is what we are talking about
 
brutus: believers have been stuck in, your so called hallucinogenic 60s, since religion started.
 
mis-t-highs

God had good reasons to flood the earth, and by doing that he released people from their coming suffering which they would've afflicted upon themselves. What's so evil about death? Death is not painful. Everyone dies, that's the law of the material world.

Animals don't sin if they kill, but humans do. The law of God changes all the time when we devolop, so many of the things in the OT are no longer valid for this generation. Then there are also things in the Bible which God himself has never spoken.
 
Just in case you missed this post on the 1st page of this thread..

M*W: If God is "God," how can their be a devil? I thought God (your God) was omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent? You discredit God and are guilty of blasphemy!
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The greatest lie the devil ever conceived was that he does not exist. God gave us free will. For us to truly have free will there must be opposition to all things. Also it may sound surprising to you but God does have laws he must live by. If God was to break his own laws he would cease to be God. It will never happen because he is perfect and will not stray.

As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on! :D
 
Brutus1964 said:
Just in case you missed this post on the 1st page of this thread..



The greatest lie the devil ever conceived was that he does not exist.

well, he Is supposed to be the father of lies or some such title, so whay WOULDN'T he lie? and....where does he say this? He -the "Devil" is only mentioned in the N.T. not the O.T.

God gave us free will. For us to truly have free will there must be opposition to all things.

No, reality is a dynamic pattern of complimentarities....hot and cold, dark and light, up and down, tired and awake, good and bad, wet and dry, life and death...etc etc. you dont have to read the Bible of Koran, or any so-called holoy book to know this. You know when you are wet, and then you will usually dry yourself, IF yu didn't KNOW wet, then 'dry' wouldn't make any sense would it? you need both, as they are part of the same continuum of experience..............
What dogmas like your fave ne does is it appropriates this natrual dynamism of reality and ABSTRACTS out the 'terminal ends' so to speak, and makes it like some outside agency, "God" has created this so you choose one over the other. Well we have already briefly explined that you can't have one end wih out the other. that they are continuum. that reality would, and couldn't make sense without complimentarities. so why do you complicate it for your self imagining some sky god is wanting you to choose ONLY one side. for example 'perfection'.....for the same dynamism would still hold for ANY 'terminal end'--are you with me? how could you ONLY have the so-called state of 'perfection'.......dont you see that in order for the concept to even make SENSE tou NEEd imperfection!

Also it may sound surprising to you but God does have laws he must live by. If God was to break his own laws he would cease to be God. It will never happen because he is perfect and will not stray.
hah.....a big reaon why your creed invented the "Devil"...for how could your 'all-loving god" create death and people being nasty to each other?

As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on! :D
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you see, even you have perverse dreams of being eaten alive...hehe
 
Yorda said:
mis-t-highs

God had good reasons to flood the earth, and by doing that he released people from their coming suffering which they would've afflicted upon themselves. What's so evil about death? Death is not painful. Everyone dies, that's the law of the material world.

Animals don't sin if they kill, but humans do. The law of God changes all the time when we devolop, so many of the things in the OT are no longer valid for this generation. Then there are also things in the Bible which God himself has never spoken.
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would you be happy, if you were among the millions he killed in the bible, and in the NT also, and please dont answer yes, that would be plainly stupid.
if animals dont sin then why does he kill them too.(bit of a sick bastard)

incidently I never once said death was evil, but you saying death is not painful, have you first hand knowledge.
take a look into the real world, burning to death not painful, drowning not painful, falling from a cliff not painful, being shot not painful, tortured to death not painful. WOW!

turn around and let you mouth do the talking for a while.

you believe he killed to clear away the sins, well he's not to good at it, your all knowing god is he, he had to do it again a few years later, for a perfect being he's got some awfully big flaws,
 
mis-t-highs said:
would you be happy, if you were among the millions he killed in the bible, and in the NT also, and please dont answer yes, that would be plainly stupid.
if animals dont sin then why does he kill them too.(bit of a sick bastard)
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I couldn't be happy if I was one of the millions he killed, since the dead have no feelings. If I would be one of the lucky to be alive, I wouldn't be sad or happy. Animals don't have a self so "they" don't die, only their bodies die because everything that is material must have a beginning and end.

you believe he killed to clear away the sins, well he's not to good at it, your all knowing god is he, he had to do it again a few years later, for a perfect being he's got some awfully big flaws,
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Only humans have flaws, nothing else. But God will correct these flaws, it just takes time, maybe some 77777 earth years.
If he would correct them instantly, he would be a sinner, since he must respect our free will.
 
what free will, your future has been pre-ordained by you god. iI have free will, as I dont have a sky daddy, controling my life.
check this next thread out, and get back to me about your free will.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=40065
so you think god is flawless.
and check this one , and do the same regarding your gods perfection.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=42283

yorda said:
Animals don't have a self so "they" don't die
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could you elaborate on this and provide source material, thank you. and how is this different from humans, when anything dies it decays the exact same way.
 
duendy said:
Now materialistic science also dismisses this very ancient primal understanding. for example the Australian Aboriginees Dreatime as all about enering the dimension of the magical realm of the ancestors etc
But now, white-coated scientists when hearing about such as this demand labotary conditions so as to 'prove' it

Can we not see the gross incongruence of this suggestion? i mean take dancing. would you like to dance in a sterile laboratory, probably with animal vivisection going on next door?......would you--if you do--like to have a Trip--as in hallucinogenic Trip there--make love there. etc etc? yes? no?...if no, then why do you suppose any thing really magical would want to happen in such soulless conditions...?
Click to expand...
The point is you CAN dance in a laboratory. Whether it's fun or not is inconsequential. It is repeatable and has scientific value.

Taking a drug like kava (or not) and having a dream about someone who is dead (or not) may be examined scientifically by examining the “dreaming” phenomenon. And the dream itself may have psychological value to the person (or otherwise), however – it is just that: “A Dream”.

The person did not “talk to the dead”. They talked with themselves as do all of us when any of us has a dream.

The scientific process, that you seem to distain, has been one of the key ingredients in bringing humans out of the superstitious and into the modern era. We no longer seek the advice of a shaman sitting in a cave smoking 5th century crack. And we’re better off for it. Just look around you. However, if you think otherwise - try living in a Tribe and see just how long you last. One day when you awake to find you’re in a pot with some potatoes and cabbage, about to be eaten because someone had a “Dream” you were a Devil and The Dream told them that the only way to purge the village was to eat your heart – you’ll rue the day you so lightly scoffed at science :)

Incidentally, almost all people who practice various forms of new age magic, reiki, aura-clearing, healing, attunement, etcetera believe what they are doing is real. And I will say this, it does appear to have an effect, sometimes powerfully, and are great examples of the powerful effects of placebo. And what the hay – if they get something out of it then that’s fine and if not that’s fine too. I can not really see much harm coming out of it.
 
Brutus1964: The greatest lie the devil ever conceived was that he does not exist.
*************
M*W: Why, when the signs of your xian-created evil devil are to be found everywhere? If you don't empower satan, he would mean nothing to you. But, you empower satan -- not me. He does not exist to me, because I won't let him. That is totally done by MY own power! (I just refuse to believe in an evil god). Evil can only manifest through human beings.
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Brutus1964: God gave us free will. For us to truly have free will there must be opposition to all things. Also it may sound surprising to you but God does have laws he must live by. If God was to break his own laws he would cease to be God. It will never happen because he is perfect and will not stray.
*************
M*W: We gave us 'free will.' God had nothing to do with it. There is no god, BTW, just like there's no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. "Opposition to all things" is a product of your evil god. If there even was a 'god,' he would have no laws, because only humans can make laws. And, god is not perfect, because he couldn't possibly exist. God only exists in your delusional mind.

Sadly, there's no dying demigod savior to save your sorry ass, either. What are you doing -- just going through life living out these delusional fantasies?
*************
Brutus1964: As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on! :D
*************
M*W: Your challenge is accepted.

NOTICE: To all atheists, free-spirits, wiccans, and anyone else on the forum who opposes the patriarchal religions (i.e. xianity) as evil, false, misogynistic, and created by the Antichrist, Paul of Tarsus, the line has been drawn in the cybersand. Let us all show Brutus1964 the delusions of his thinking. PRESENT ARMS!
 
mis-t-highs said:
to yorda:
Genesis 6:7-17
7:4
7:21-23
7:8
8:20
exodus 4:23
4:24-26
7:4-17
7:17-24
9:9-12
leviticus 1:6
1:11
10:6-9
18:25
20:9-16
this just a taster, I've printed it this way so you have to look it up for yourself.
also to be found in numbers,deuteronomy,joshua,judges,1 samuel,2 samuel, 1 kings,2 kings,1 chronicles,2 chronicles,esther,job,psalms,proverbs,isaiah,jeremiah,lamentations,ezekiel,daniel,hosea,joel,amos,obadiah,micah,nahum,habakkuk,zephaniah,haggai,zechariah,malachi.
NT: matthew,mark,luke,john acts,romans,ephesians,colossians,2 thessalonians,hebrews,james,1 peter,2 peter,1 john,jude,revelations.

to caffeine_fubar:
could you supply the reference material, for these talking to the dead and spells that work, and is it possible to recreate them in laboratory condictions.
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talking to the dead referring to my insanity in believing that i see dead people in mirrors, and spells seem to work by coincidence i want something to happen, do a little spell, and it happens every damn time... lol
 
i think its more to do with manipulating the energies around you with simple focus... one way to prove that manipulation of energies is possible is to take in the fact that you reading this will change the way you think towards me, and therefor change the way you see many things directly or indirectly... by doing that, i have changed your mind, spirit, or energy.

simply being around something or someone is influential and can change the way you are... i consider that part of your energy

i proved my little spell part... my dead people thing could be considered insanity...
 
*As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on!

Another idiot makes a jackass of himself, the last one was the pres. Who used the same line. (bring it on) 1200 US soldiers dead.

Godless.
 
*i proved my little spell part... my dead people thing could be considered insanity...

More like a raving lunatic, then again don't go buying a gun anytime soon ok!. ;).

Godless.
 
Godless said:
*As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on!

Another idiot makes a jackass of himself, the last one was the pres. Who used the same line. (bring it on) 1200 US soldiers dead.

Godless.
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Our President George W Bush used these same words to describe the liberation of millions of Iraqis and Afghanis. I am flattered that you equated my words with our fine President. :D :p :D
 
Michael said:
The point is you CAN dance in a laboratory. Whether it's fun or not is inconsequential.

Whether it's fun or not IS consequential. Your reponse reveals exactly the mode of operation of scientific endeavour which from its beginnings was to deliberately leave QUALITY out of its proceedings.

It is repeatable and has scientific value.

You mean like conveyor-belt repeatable? another line from scientific indoctrination

Taking a drug like kava (or not) and having a dream about someone who is dead (or not) may be examined scientifically by examining the “dreaming” phenomenon. And the dream itself may have psychological value to the person (or otherwise), however – it is just that: “A Dream”.

Oh is that so. So you are suggesting someone's subjective experience can be objectively analyzed by science? Have you not hard of the "hard problem" of science (David Chalmers)...where they are struggling to UNDERSTAND 'subjective' consciousness?....you'd better get hip kid

The person did not “talk to the dead”. They talked with themselves as do all of us when any of us has a dream.

You seem SO cocksure about this. Very much like your average orthodox scientist actually

The scientific process, that you seem to distain, has been one of the key ingredients in bringing humans out of the superstitious and into the modern era.

Haha...a HUGE fallacy you believe in. If you think science still doesn't harbour superstition, then ...what can i say? LEARN! It is not only superstitious in its doings, it is making everything toxic, and doing great violence to many people.

We no longer seek the advice of a shaman sitting in a cave smoking 5th century crack.

That statment shows your complete ignore-ance regarding shamanism, and ancient use of sacramaents for spiritual inspiration.
For a start, crack cocaine wasn't smoked by shamans; is only a relatively recent 'purification' of cocaine--induced by the Drug War (probably created/its market..by the CIA). so please. unless you know what you are talkin about, be quiet, or you can make yourself look a fool

And we’re better off for it. Just look around you.

I am and i DO, and obviously i dont, and obviously you aren't hip to REALLY what's going on either. your broadband, eyes and ears and sense are wasted on you!

However, if you think otherwise - try living in a Tribe and see just how long you last.

I am damnd sure, a lot longer than you would mate.

One day when you awake to find you’re in a pot with some potatoes and cabbage, about to be eaten because someone had a “Dream” you were a Devil and The Dream told them that the only way to purge the village was to eat your heart – you’ll rue the day you so lightly scoffed at science :)

are you for real?? Jeeeez. i remember years back seeing white middle class cartoonists do the tribe with the cannibal
bowl. thought that idea had beeen well lost. What planet are you from michael. you really desperately need some PRPOER education

Incidentally, almost all people who practice various forms of new age magic, reiki, aura-clearing, healing, attunement, etcetera believe what they are doing is real. And I will say this, it does appear to have an effect, sometimes powerfully, and are great examples of the powerful effects of placebo. And what the hay – if they get something out of it then that’s fine and if not that’s fine too. I can not really see much harm coming out of it.
Click to expand...

you should go check what allopathic medicine has done. And i might add, placebos are not unknown to medical science either
In summary. your shit shows a LOt of ignorance. you definately arw arrogant in your scientifically-superior conceit, and thus are blind to its catastrophic failure
 
BRUTUS says- ??!!??? "Our President George W Bush used these same words to describe the liberation of millions of Iraqis and Afghanis. I am flattered that you equated my words with our fine President."

I am going to pretend BRUTUS didn't just say that. I don't want to buy a new laptop and I'm pretty sure vomit won't just wipe right off.

I avoid political forums specifically in order to NOT read comments like that one, which I am now going to pretend I did not see.
 
Cole Grey

Sorry, I try to keep politics out of other discussions too but "godless" threw down the gauntlet. I had to give him a strong retort for his comments. How about we keep this thread civil and we can avoid such invectives in the future? ;)
 
Everything is political aren't you two dim-wits aware of that by now?.

Godless.
 
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