The Bible, Literal or Allegorical?

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Brutus1964

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Are the stories in the Bible based on actual events, are they made up, or does the truth lie somewhere in between? This debate has raged for centuries. Was there really a Garden Of Eden or Adam and Eve? Was there really a flood, or was Jonah really swallowed by a whale? I would submit that whether the Bible is literal or allegorical is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that the Bible is the word of God. You may ask how some of the stories of the Bible could be based on fiction but still be the true word of God? An allegory can be based on a true or a fictitious event. For instance when Jesus was on the Earth he taught in parables. Were the stories he told based on actual events? Was he talking about a real person saved by a Good Samaritan, or an actual Prodigal’s son? Not at all. Because the parables were not designed just to tell a story. They were meant to teach a true principle. The Bible was not meant to be a history book. It was written to teach the principles of God and bring us closer to him. For instance, the story of Adam and Eve. You are free to believe that they were literally the first man and women on Earth, or that their story was just a way to illustrate the principle of man's fallen nature and our ability to choose our own destiny. Either way the principle is true, and that man's fallen nature required a Savior to bring us back to God. Principles are best taught when they are given a context. By incorporating a principal inside a story we can easier visualize and understand it. It allows us to identify with it and apply it towards our own lives.
 
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Back in Biblical times, the story in Genesis probably seemed like a reasonable, literal explanation of creation. The stories are not clearly identified as allegories, and failing to do so only creates confusion. With Genesis, the Bible contains one of two things:

-False information, or
-Information that, while not false (because it is an allegory), does not indicate such. God would know that Genesis would be interpreted literally by almost every Christian in history (up until very recently) when he wrote it, so it's inclusion is tantamount to lies and deception.
 
TheERK said:
Back in Biblical times, the story in Genesis probably seemed like a reasonable, literal explanation of creation. The stories are not clearly identified as allegories, and failing to do so only creates confusion. With Genesis, the Bible contains one of two things:

-False information, or
-Information that, while not false (because it is an allegory), does not indicate such. God would know that Genesis would be interpreted literally by almost every Christian in history (up until very recently) when he wrote it, so it's inclusion is tantamount to lies and deception.
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In my first post I am not saying that I do not believe the Adam and Eve story happened. I am just saying that if it did or did not it is irrelevant to the fact that the Bible is the word of God. It is the principles in the Bible that are the important part not the stories themselves. The Old Testament is very allegorical because its entire purpose is meant to point towards Jesus Christ without being too obvious. Also the Bible is not meant to be a proof of the existence of God. We are required to live by faith in order to return back to him. Any exact proof of God would interfere with that. The Bible is vague in order to inspire faith, not an attempt to deceive. You have the complete freedom to either believe in the Bible and thus God, or not. That is your God given right.
 
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Brutus1964 said:
I would submit that whether the Bible is literal or allegorical is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that the Bible is the word of God.
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I would submit that the real answer is somewhere in-between with

1) some of the stories meant to explain the age old questions of how humans came to be (these are complete fictions and may or may not be allegories), why we are here, and why life sucks sometimes

2) others are just embellishments of previous stories based on real events (ie: powerful [but local] tsunami event suddenly becomes global destruction due to Gods wrath on evil mankind [aka: more penance please - or by God it’ll happen again!])

3) and still others are true allegories meant to teach something, some of these would only be fully understood by initiates that understand the underlying meaning (ie: Gnosis Christians and numerology etc. . . ) and may be the main reson for the many different “interpretations” of the Bible. Not many people today understand the symbolic meaning (see: Ancient Cosmology and Early Christian Symbolism)

4) etc . . . . .

But, as you say this is absolutely irreverent, and this is where we take different paths. I would submit that because almost every single Biblical story is just a copy (some word for word) of various earlier religious stories involving many other Gods, that the Bible is just a poor plagiarizing of previous religious stories and hence are no more your “Gods Words” than they are the “Original Gods Words” whom they were plagiarized from.
 
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I believe most of the Bible to be truth. However, don't take it all literally because that's when it'll not make much sense. The ignorant people back in the days that wrote the Bible explained everything the best they could. I believe the same to apply to almost all mythology of the past.

- N
 
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All true principles come from God because that is where they originate. Anything that teaches a true principle and inspires faith in God can be said to be the word of God. For example, The Lord Of The Rings is a work of fiction, however it contains true principles within it. The story itself does not come from God but the principles it contains certainly does. Works like The Lord Of The Rings can teach them but bringing people to God is not their primary purpose. What makes The Bible special is that its very purpose is to teach correct principles and bring people to God.
 
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Brutus1964 said:
All true principles come from God because that is where they originate.
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Why do you say that?
What is a “principal”?
What is a “true” principle?
Can you give an example of a true principal and an example of a false principal?
What does “comes from God” mean?

I believe that 1+1 = 2 is true whether or not it is from the “words” of the Gods or even if Gods exists for that matter.

Brutus1964 said:
Anything that teaches a true principle can be said to be the word of God.
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What do you mean when you say: “word of God”?

1) "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."

Is the above a “true” principal?
Is it the word of God?

2) “In disagreements with loved ones, deal with the current situation. Don't bring up the past.”

Is the above a “true” principal?
Is it the word of God?

3) “Words build bridges into un-explored regions.”

Is the above a “true” principal?
Is it the word of God?

4) "He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the Lord."

Is the above a “true” principal?
Is it the word of God?

5) "You can do what you would like, but you will pay the consequences -Responsibility to the responsible"

Is the above a “true” principal?
Is it the word of God?
 
There really is a garden of Eden and Adam and Eve did exist. There really was a flood. Jonah really was swollowed by a sea creature of some sort. Jesus made up the parables as an example to teach people, but it probably wasn't something that really happened.
 
Michael

If you read my post carefully you would have seen that it must be a true principle and inspire faith in God to be the word of God. Also, yes 1+1=2 is a true principle that came from God. He created mathematics therefore it is a true principle.

Enigma07

I agree with you. I to believe that the Garden of Eden, flood, and Jonah stories are true but they are also allegorical. They are mentioned in The Bible to teach true principles. My point is that even if the stories are based on actual events or not it does lesson in any way the validity of The Bible or it's Godly origins.

My belief is the answer to the question that this thread poses is that The Bible is both literal and allegorical.
 
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Brutus1964......I wonder why it is you cling to the Bible for dear life. In front of you, i assume, you have A computer? And the opportunity ot do research on the Web?

So WHy then are you stuck in the Middle Ages, believing in the authority of the Bible being 'God's word?

I cannot count how many pages there are, how many books, programmes, etc telling you otherwise. so i ask myself why is it you dont know this? you don't know of the sources that would help you step out of your constricted views

The stories--as the previous poster points out are a hotsch potch of appropriated stories from other myths......were THEY written by 'God'...which god?......

and when you say "God" do you know what you mean? are you aware of the usurption of Goddess by 'God'...the upstart Hebrew tribal sky god? obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't blatantly reveal your naiveity
 
Duendy and mis-t-highs

You say that Christianity is a rip off of many other pagan religions. Yes it is true that pagans have stories, symbols, traditions, beliefs, and rituals that are similar to Christianity. You think that just because Christianity is not as old as those religions that we must have borrowed from them. However that perception is because you are viewing Christianity to have started when Christ was on the Earth. The fact is that God existed before any pagan religion. It was the pagans that co-opted the true teachings for themselves. Satan has a very effective technique of taking truth and then corrupting it as a way of discrediting the original truth. We say that since a symbol is used by a pagan religion then that symbol must have originated from the devil. When in fact it came from God but was co-opted by the devil for his purposes. There is only one truth and it comes from God. All lies and deception come from the devil. By following God he can help us discern right and wrong and choose the right path.
 
I explained in a previous post in reponse your interpretation of the Gaden of Eden myth that thevery CHARACTER of "Satan2 was only included in the Bible AFTER Genesis, and that his original nature was NOT "Yahweh's" ENEMY but rather his 'tester'. thus he was --according to their M Y T H--working in ACCORDANCE with 'he-God'. So, understanding that, your notion of Satan misleading...or of there being a Christian doctrine that the PAGANS ripped off doesn't hold up. in fact you argument is also hardly unique, but believe it the evidence is MUCH against your assurance about this
 
Brutus1964: You say that Christianity is a rip off of many other pagan religions. Yes it is true that pagans have stories, symbols, traditions, beliefs, and rituals that are similar to Christianity. You think that just because Christianity is not as old as those religions that we must have borrowed from them. However that perception is because you are viewing Christianity to have started when Christ was on the Earth. The fact is that God existed before any pagan religion. It was the pagans that co-opted the true teachings for themselves.
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M*W: Christianity was NOT a rip-off of many other pagan religions. Christianity was just another pagan religion. The Pagans, as in Gentiles, were Paul's viewing audience. It's scholarly well-documented that Christianity was taken from a much earlier cadre of dying demigod saviors. The "God" that existed "before any pagan religion" didn't exist at all! In fact, the original "God" WAS A PAGAN SYMBOL -- the Sun -- Sol Invictus.
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Brutus1964: Satan has a very effective technique of taking truth and then corrupting it as a way of discrediting the original truth.
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M*W: Satan, hmmmm. Satan gets a lot of blame for a lot of things, but let me tell you what, Satan is only guilty by association with one Saul of Tarsus, who corrupted the original truth of Essene Christianity.
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Brutus1964: We say that since a symbol is used by a pagan religion then that symbol must have originated from the devil.
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M*W: Who says that, you christians? Where do you make the connection between paganism and the devil? That sounds like your christian perspective of the devil (who you people created anyway!).
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Brutus1964: When in fact it came from God but was co-opted by the devil for his purposes. There is only one truth and it comes from God. All lies and deception come from the devil. By following God he can help us discern right and wrong and choose the right path.
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M*W: If God is "God," how can their be a devil? I thought God (your God) was omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent? You discredit God and are guilty of blasphemy!

Man created God, not the other way around. A liar and deceiver created your christian faith... and you have the audacity to come on this forum and start talking about your "God!" If there is a god, he wouldn't have anything to do with someone as dumb as you! That could only mean that you are of the devil and are guilty by association with Saul of Tarsus. You might want to consider joining a christian forum, because you will be eaten alive here.
 
here I go repeating myself again,there are over 650 bad things, either caused directly, or indirectly by xian god, in the bible, but just over 50 more accountable to the devil, and none of those killed anyone.
so why do you xians, always say the devil is the nasty one. sit down and actually read the bible, or go on the net, and read it.I believe in neither, but I wish you people would read it first.
I'll do a search, and try to find a plain english, version for you.



found this http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/TBB.htm
just ask for the basic bible
 
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mis-t-highs said:
here I go repeating myself again,there are over 650 bad things, either caused directly, or indirectly by xian god, in the bible, but just over 50 more accountable to the devil, and none of those killed anyone.
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I haven't seen even one bad thing caused by God.
 
Symbolism... i think its a book of guidelines you CAN live your life by if you so choose... maybe? I dont see how some of those stories could be real... but i also cant explain some things that happen in life today that i have seen... Talking to the dead and casting spells that work. I understand why it works and how it works... but only to an extent... sorry i just started rambling ;)
 
to yorda:
Genesis 6:7-17
7:4
7:21-23
7:8
8:20
exodus 4:23
4:24-26
7:4-17
7:17-24
9:9-12
leviticus 1:6
1:11
10:6-9
18:25
20:9-16
this just a taster, I've printed it this way so you have to look it up for yourself.
also to be found in numbers,deuteronomy,joshua,judges,1 samuel,2 samuel, 1 kings,2 kings,1 chronicles,2 chronicles,esther,job,psalms,proverbs,isaiah,jeremiah,lamentations,ezekiel,daniel,hosea,joel,amos,obadiah,micah,nahum,habakkuk,zephaniah,haggai,zechariah,malachi.
NT: matthew,mark,luke,john acts,romans,ephesians,colossians,2 thessalonians,hebrews,james,1 peter,2 peter,1 john,jude,revelations.

to caffeine_fubar:
could you supply the reference material, for these talking to the dead and spells that work, and is it possible to recreate them in laboratory condictions.
 
M*W: If God is "God," how can their be a devil? I thought God (your God) was omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent? You discredit God and are guilty of blasphemy!
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The greatest lie the devil ever conceived was that he does not exist. God gave us free will. For us to truly have free will there must be opposition to all things. Also it may sound surprising to you but God does have laws he must live by. If God was to break his own laws he would cease to be God. It will never happen because he is perfect and will not stray.

As for being "eaten alive" in this forum. I say bring it on! :D
 
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ok, we are exposing biblical hypocrisy and literalism. but i also want to expose the CURRENT scientific paradigm to. For as explained somewhere else, the birth of modern science grew out of deep dissatisfaction with the superstitious, dogmatic, and violent church. Many scientists may be not being aware of the church's propaganda nd complete suppression of pagan beliefs

one of the pagan beliefs was contact ith the 'dead', with the ancestors. this belief was much demonized by the christian church and had been also in the O.T

Now materialistic science also dismisses this very ancient primal understanding. for example the Australian Aboriginees Dreatime as all about enering the dimension of the magical realm of the ancestors etc
But now, white-coated scientists when hearing about such as this demand labotary conditions so as to 'prove' it

Can we not see the gross incongruence of this suggestion? i mean take dancing. would you like to dance in a sterile laboratory, probably with animal vivisection going on next door?......would you--if you do--like to have a Trip--as in hallucinogenic Trip there--make love there. etc etc? yes? no?...if no, then why do you suppose any thing really magical would want to happen in such soulless conditions...?
 
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