The best article on Atheism I have read
- Thread starter KennyJC
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A very interesting article , KennyJC ,
As a countryman of Kierkegaard, I have to say, that his writings are more than 150 years old , today we try to focus on his existentialism and tries to forget his christianity ( a bit like the Sartre school ) ..... if he had written anything like this today , we would have kicked his butt ....
As a European I did not know, that , anyone holding an office in USA has to "at least pretend " that they believe in god - in Denmark we have a christian political party, that normally gets 2 % of the votes ...
If any politician claims he is a believer , he normally looses votes in Denmark , because we then think, he is a bit strange in his head , out of touch with reality - NOBODY with a chance of winning the election , would dare to claim that he was a believer - it would be pure political suicide .......
It is truly amazing, that so many believes in god and goes to church in USA (44 %) - priests and churches in Denmark would thank god ,( crying and on their knees ) if just 5 % of the population would turn up in church on sundays ......
It is like reading about Denmark 40 - 60 years ago ........
Also interesting with this GOD GENE - is it a disease - or at least a genetic disorder to be a christian ????????
As a countryman of Kierkegaard, I have to say, that his writings are more than 150 years old , today we try to focus on his existentialism and tries to forget his christianity ( a bit like the Sartre school ) ..... if he had written anything like this today , we would have kicked his butt ....
As a European I did not know, that , anyone holding an office in USA has to "at least pretend " that they believe in god - in Denmark we have a christian political party, that normally gets 2 % of the votes ...
If any politician claims he is a believer , he normally looses votes in Denmark , because we then think, he is a bit strange in his head , out of touch with reality - NOBODY with a chance of winning the election , would dare to claim that he was a believer - it would be pure political suicide .......
It is truly amazing, that so many believes in god and goes to church in USA (44 %) - priests and churches in Denmark would thank god ,( crying and on their knees ) if just 5 % of the population would turn up in church on sundays ......
It is like reading about Denmark 40 - 60 years ago ........
Also interesting with this GOD GENE - is it a disease - or at least a genetic disorder to be a christian ????????
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How many ways can we argue god or no god? Who has the burden of proof? I would lay that at the feet of believers, we're all atheists at birth. For the same reason someone wanted to believe in god, I stayed atheist. The article was great but I think it safe to say it was born out of frustration, the same frustration most atheists feel when we see logic replaced with illogic. I personally see god belief as the scourge of mankind, no amount of reasoning can ever convince me a god exists, likewise the theists. Excuse me if I'm wrong but I believe it was Cris or maybe Kennyjc who stated in another thread that the ratio of atheists to theists is getting tighter....I only hope that this trend is a sign people are liking the atheist argument.
Paraclete,
You are making Denmark sound very attractive. And I hear similar stories about many countries in Europe.
I've lived here in the USA for the past 10 years and am eligible to apply for citizenship if I wish. Haven't decided yet. In many ways the USA is quite advanced, technology perhaps, but socially and culturally you are perhaps not far wrong in that 40 year estimate. I'm British and of course cannot help making comparisons.
But there are other less obvious issues and really not so important, but a trend nevertheless, where the USA is behind -
Big issue here now is offering free bank checking accounts. That had become standard in the UK some 30 yars.
Cell-phone technology - my kids in the UK had the more advanced phones in the UK some 10 years before the USA had the equivalent, and they are still behind.
Washing machines and kitchen appliances. These generally look like antiques when compared to European designs and styles. Having built seevral kitchens in my various homes in the UK I was astonished at the apparent backwardness of such things over here.
Oh and fridge/freezers that are just not produced in a size to match any other kitchen equipment and until recently came in about two different styles, now there is perhaps 4 - LOL.
Domestic electrical system - LOL. Amazingly primitive. Only recently has there been any choice in the styles of light switches. And the dangerous power plugs are a joke.
There's a lot more. But for religion - yes I think the USA is currently in a very immature state right now. Not heldped by very powerful political lobby groups. Not quite sure how they will break away from this backwardness and irrationality.
You are making Denmark sound very attractive. And I hear similar stories about many countries in Europe.
I've lived here in the USA for the past 10 years and am eligible to apply for citizenship if I wish. Haven't decided yet. In many ways the USA is quite advanced, technology perhaps, but socially and culturally you are perhaps not far wrong in that 40 year estimate. I'm British and of course cannot help making comparisons.
But there are other less obvious issues and really not so important, but a trend nevertheless, where the USA is behind -
Big issue here now is offering free bank checking accounts. That had become standard in the UK some 30 yars.
Cell-phone technology - my kids in the UK had the more advanced phones in the UK some 10 years before the USA had the equivalent, and they are still behind.
Washing machines and kitchen appliances. These generally look like antiques when compared to European designs and styles. Having built seevral kitchens in my various homes in the UK I was astonished at the apparent backwardness of such things over here.
Oh and fridge/freezers that are just not produced in a size to match any other kitchen equipment and until recently came in about two different styles, now there is perhaps 4 - LOL.
Domestic electrical system - LOL. Amazingly primitive. Only recently has there been any choice in the styles of light switches. And the dangerous power plugs are a joke.
There's a lot more. But for religion - yes I think the USA is currently in a very immature state right now. Not heldped by very powerful political lobby groups. Not quite sure how they will break away from this backwardness and irrationality.
Cris ,
I think it has something to do with society, Denmark has some of the best social security in the world , education is free (you have to pay for your books in university though) , hospitals and doctors are free ......
You can walk alone in the parks here in the capital Copenhagen at night without being afraid of being mugged .....
Denmark right now has the strongest economy of Europe - and one of the strongest economies in the world - in 15 -20 years we will have paid all of our national debt....
and we will be one of the very few countries in the world , that has no national debt ...
You do not have to be afraid in daily life and try to resort to god ........
Also so many people here are very well educated (free education) , and somehow it seems that high education and a scientific understanding of the world counters religion ......
I have actually had patients from USA , that tried to fake insanity, for not being send back to USA from Denmark - simply because they felt they had a much better and easier life here ......
I think (hope) that USA will develop itself into something like this one day ......
I think it has something to do with society, Denmark has some of the best social security in the world , education is free (you have to pay for your books in university though) , hospitals and doctors are free ......
You can walk alone in the parks here in the capital Copenhagen at night without being afraid of being mugged .....
Denmark right now has the strongest economy of Europe - and one of the strongest economies in the world - in 15 -20 years we will have paid all of our national debt....
and we will be one of the very few countries in the world , that has no national debt ...
You do not have to be afraid in daily life and try to resort to god ........
Also so many people here are very well educated (free education) , and somehow it seems that high education and a scientific understanding of the world counters religion ......
I have actually had patients from USA , that tried to fake insanity, for not being send back to USA from Denmark - simply because they felt they had a much better and easier life here ......
I think (hope) that USA will develop itself into something like this one day ......
Right now in Denmark everybody is getting IP-phones (computerphones) as a supplement to mobile phones ....
For the last year it has been absolutely free for me to phone to all of my friends and family (worldwide) , because they have a computerphone at www.skype.com
(a danish/swedish invented company, that has just been sold to ebay for billions of dollars), and when I phone to an ordinary phone in USA I only pay a few cents per minute ....
The 2 inventors (one danish ,one swedish) had the dream, that everybody should be able to call for free all over the world using their computer ....
For the last year it has been absolutely free for me to phone to all of my friends and family (worldwide) , because they have a computerphone at www.skype.com
(a danish/swedish invented company, that has just been sold to ebay for billions of dollars), and when I phone to an ordinary phone in USA I only pay a few cents per minute ....
The 2 inventors (one danish ,one swedish) had the dream, that everybody should be able to call for free all over the world using their computer ....
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Yup I have done the same or very similar but I use VONAGE and my regular phone. With that I also have a virtual London phone number that all my family in the Uk can call but it rings here in California but they only get charged local call rates which are free with their current plans.
The uptake of such services is not as fast as I'd thought. Quite a bit of opposition. Issues with emergency call numbers has been a legal issue.
Voice quality with Vonage is indistinguishable from regular land lines.
The uptake of such services is not as fast as I'd thought. Quite a bit of opposition. Issues with emergency call numbers has been a legal issue.
Voice quality with Vonage is indistinguishable from regular land lines.
Cris said:
Also true for Skype, who has a disclaimer for working in emergency cases.
(with skype you can get a real telephonenumber too - but there is a small fee for that....)
So I still keep my mobile phone, just to be sure .....
Sorry KennyJC, for using your thread for non-religous smalltalk ....
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Cris said:
Possibly, if it was biased against atheism. You would think that atheists would want the unbiased truth, but nope.
Cris said:
Atheists always hate it when Chrisitians present propaganda in their face, just stating the irony.
There is a lot wrong with the article. For instance, it makes it seem like God is the causer of all good, and therefore if bad exists, then God cannot exist eventhough the Bible itself states that God created good and evil. Also it makes the "Christian" God seem like Zeus or Thor when clearly in the Bible he is not.
Anyone could easily write another article against atheism, I mean what if someone brought up atheistic communism and the Soviet Union and how millions died through that? I mean Stalin was an atheist and he killed more people than Hitler and atheists are always saying society is better off without religion.
It is hardly propaganda. The article brought fourth facts regarding the fragile and irrational nature of belief in Gods, and showed how secular countries outperform that of religious countries in both security and social health.
Athiesm can be the persuit of such security which can be seen in for example Scandinavian countries like we were saying. That doesn't count as a religious beleif system, it is based on the real world.
Athiesm can be the persuit of such security which can be seen in for example Scandinavian countries like we were saying. That doesn't count as a religious beleif system, it is based on the real world.
That was not atheism, atheism does not lead to communism, atheist's political idealogies varie from all spectrums of politics. Also you should read your history a bit more, these people were extremely religious when communism took over, all that their government did is replace god with the state, the state became the omnipotent power over them. Furthermore compared to the history of christianity, those millions killed by communism is a small number compared to the slaughter comited by christians in their early days of christiandom.
Godless
Godless said:
Stalin was known to be an atheist and banned all religion. Also, Stalin is responsible for killing more than 5-10 million people, more than even Hitler.
Ofcourse, to atheists, this simply means that he was a bad person, and it has nothing to do with atheism. Ofcourse, the Crusuaders, even though there is a multitude of Biblical evidence to completely denounce their actions are considered to be Christians killing because they're Christian. Where is the logic??
KennyJC said:
Haha, this is clearly a foolish, false statement. Anyone skilled or unskilled in literary analysis can clearly tell you there is definitely biased propaganda in this article. And I say that 100% certainty.
Here are just some of the biased statements used to promote atheistic propaganda in that article:
"Only the atheist recognizes the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved"
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God while this same God drowned infants in their cribs"
"Consequently, only the atheist is compassionate enough to take the profundity of the world’s suffering at face value"
Ofcourse, anything for "atheism" is all good and truthful to the atheist.
Vitalone,
Ambiguous religious texts can be interpreted many ways depending on the intent of the interpreter, and if he is a good salesman then the gullible will follow. Both the Crusaders and the inquisitors believed they had full biblical support at the time and considered themselves Christian.
I would suspect that if Jesus were alive today that he would not have agreed to invade Iraq and kill so many people. Yet Bush has and he considers himself a Christian - where is the logic in that?
That’s what can be done if one has power.
So is one worse than the other because of head count? I would consider the killing of a single person to be equally bad as either of them.
Atheism means nothing more than a disbelief in gods. It is not a doctrine or a religion. An atheist can be the worst and the best in society. Implying that all atheists must be bad because one of them is a murderer is a logical fallacy.
The pope at the time interpreted the bible to mean that “love your enemies” only applied if your enemies were also Christian. If they weren’t and wouldn’t convert then it was fine to butcher and murder them. The inquisition interpreted the bible yet another way and deemed it was OK to persecute and torture people because if the victims were innocent then they would be rewarded in heaven. Muslim suicide bombers interpret their Quran to allow them to kill enemies of Islam and the reward will be found in heaven. Remember also that Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews because of his interpretation of the bible – he considered himself a Christian. Where is the logic in any of that? And where is the logic to conclude that a god exist?
Ambiguous religious texts can be interpreted many ways depending on the intent of the interpreter, and if he is a good salesman then the gullible will follow. Both the Crusaders and the inquisitors believed they had full biblical support at the time and considered themselves Christian.
I would suspect that if Jesus were alive today that he would not have agreed to invade Iraq and kill so many people. Yet Bush has and he considers himself a Christian - where is the logic in that?