The atrocities of Christianity

[Yazata]

But this taking sides is apparently very pleasurable to some people!

Oh yeah, that's human nature. People instinctively like the feeling of belonging to something, of feeling solidarity with it. And that solidarity is often won by standing shoulder-to-shoulder in opposition to something else.

It doesn't always matter a whole lot what cause or doctrine people are rallying around. It might be something as insignificant as a sports team.

I think that in history religion has often represented that rallying point, simply because religion typically embodies and represents whatever a culture believes is highest and best.

Of course, not everyone finds pleasure that way, so when different kinds of people are put together in a communication situation, there is a conflict of interests.

Again, I agree with you. I don't like the feeling of being forced by discussion-board social-pressure to choose a side, and then to battle mindlessly and incessantly with the hated infidel outsiders. Any suggestion of personal ambiguity, that you might not think that your own side is 100% on the side of the angels, can be dangerous socially. It's apt to be interpreted as disloyalty, and can get you flamed. (In street gangs, it gets you killed.)

 

[Mazulu]

This made me chuckle. You talked about the bible quote about rich men and camels getting through needle eyes and yet you missed the message entirely. Jesus was not talking only to rich men, he was talking to YOU (who are rich by the standard of most people). If you can't bring yourself (rich or not) to sell everything you have and give the money to the poor, then you are going to have a hard time getting into heaven because you are too attached to material things. So consider Jesus's challenge. Can YOU sell everything you have and give the money to the poor? I suspect not. You don't even have to do it. Just ask yourself if you could do it. I thought not, and so you will have a hard time getting into heaven. The message is clear. You might consider yourself a Christian, but the question is really, would Jesus consider you a Christian?

My personal suspicion is that if the rich man had sold everything the money would have been given to Jesus and his troupe. There is one born every minute, and I don't mean a messiah.

That really is the question, isn't it? How much of ones wealth and creature comforts can one retain and still go to heaven? In the other thread, the NDE thread, there is the suggestion that a lot of people go to heaven. Even athiests. In a near death experience, you get a 2 minute preview of what awaits you on the other side. At least that's how I look at it. Even if I can't give up my creature comforts, I would still like to do what I can to bring some good into this world.

On that note, if atheists find some sense of comfort, or at least a sense of certainty about the lack of hard scientific evidence, then maybe I should just let it be and move on to another discussion. Does this battle need to be fought? It's not a slam dunk for atheists or theists, it's not a slam dunk for either side.

 

[river]

Gnostic's back in Alexandra's time, the city in Egypt , thought that Christianity was a atrocity in and of its self in the first place

 

[Cheezle]

That really is the question, isn't it? How much of ones wealth and creature comforts can one retain and still go to heaven? In the other thread, the NDE thread, there is the suggestion that a lot of people go to heaven. Even athiests. In a near death experience, you get a 2 minute preview of what awaits you on the other side. At least that's how I look at it. Even if I can't give up my creature comforts, I would still like to do what I can to bring some good into this world.

On that note, if atheists find some sense of comfort, or at least a sense of certainty about the lack of hard scientific evidence, then maybe I should just let it be and move on to another discussion. Does this battle need to be fought? It's not a slam dunk for atheists or theists, it's not a slam dunk for either side.

No, I don't think you do get it. Jesus was not talking about how you can't take your possessions with you. He was saying that here on this earth, in this world, people are too attached to material things. So he told the rich man to go sell it all now, not to wait until he was near death. So all Christians should ask themselves if they could sell everything they have and give the money to the poor. It is a core idea in Christianity. Another thing Jesus told people was that they should be able to leave their friends, wife, and children. He said that he was more important to them than any of those people. So all Christians should ask themselves if they could do that. Abandon their families, and friends to be with Jesus. To be a good Christian, nothing should come between you can Jesus. That if they had to choose between Jesus or the people they love, then they should choose Jesus.

This is why many people consider Christianity at the time of Jesus, to have been a cult. Christianity is not primarily about doing good acts, it is primarily about Jesus. You have to accept him as your Lord and savior or you can't get into heaven. That is supposedly what he said.

 

[Mazulu]

No, I don't think you do get it. Jesus was not talking about how you can't take your possessions with you. He was saying that here on this earth, in this world, people are too attached to material things. So he told the rich man to go sell it all now, not to wait until he was near death. So all Christians should ask themselves if they could sell everything they have and give the money to the poor. It is a core idea in Christianity. Another thing Jesus told people was that they should be able to leave their friends, wife, and children. He said that he was more important to them than any of those people. So all Christians should ask themselves if they could do that. Abandon their families, and friends to be with Jesus. To be a good Christian, nothing should come between you can Jesus. That if they had to choose between Jesus or the people they love, then they should choose Jesus.

This is why many people consider Christianity at the time of Jesus, to have been a cult. Christianity is not primarily about doing good acts, it is primarily about Jesus. You have to accept him as your Lord and savior or you can't get into heaven. That is supposedly what he said.

Forget I even said that. Christianity is rooted is Christ, it's rooted it charity, love and goodness. Atheist is valueless, worthless, it helps nobody. It's fact atheist was a doctrine of communism. I would strongly discourage others from embracing atheism.

 

[Neverfly]

Forget I even said that. Christianity is rooted is Christ, it's rooted it charity, love and goodness. Atheist is valueless, worthless, it helps nobody. It's fact atheist was a doctrine of communism. I would strongly discourage others from embracing atheism.

No, it's not "fact" at all, Mazulu. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God and it's been around for thousands of years. Some of the ancient philosophers were well known atheists.

You believe it is valueless only because you see a certain value in your own beliefs. But to claim other beliefs have no value is clearly biased. As you are not an atheist- one who lacks belief in the divine, you do not see the value we place in it, in knowing our place in the cosmos and what we can do.
And... as above- you have some misconceptions about it. You're very closed minded when it comes to this topic. And to be blunt, I find it a shame. You have a lot of potential to expand your mind. That doesn't mean 'be an atheist'- it simply means understand more than what you do currently.

This post of yours responded to where you'd neglected part of your own faith. Right? It's not difficult to get carried away and do that. But it does demonstrate that you can neglect what you could be trying to understand. You don't like it when others are dismissive of your beliefs, after-all.

 

[Cheezle]

Christianity is rooted is Christ, it's rooted it charity, love and goodness.

That is not really true. A person can supposedly be a horrible person all of their life and accept Jesus only at the end and still go to heaven. The bible gives examples. On the other hand, a person can be charitable, loving and full of goodness and if they do not accept Christ then they will go to hell (or some other place not heaven). So the whole "rooted in goodness" thing is not exactly true. The one and only thing that is absolutely required in Christianity is accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, and loving him more than anything person or thing. Sounds kind of freaky doesn't it.

 

[Neverfly]

That is not really true. A person can supposedly be a horrible person all of their life and accept Jesus only at the end and still go to heaven. The bible gives examples. On the other hand, a person can be charitable, loving and full of goodness and if they do not accept Christ then they will go to hell (or some other place not heaven). So the whole "rooted in goodness" thing is not exactly true. The one and only thing that is absolutely required in Christianity is accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, and loving him more than anything person or thing. Sounds kind of freaky doesn't it.

[video=youtube;urlTBBKTO68]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68[/video]

 

[Mazulu]

Chuckle! Good video.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Atheist is valueless, worthless, it helps nobody. It's fact atheist was a doctrine of communism.

You haven't studied history. Communism is in fact an offshoot of Christianity. Karl Marx was a Christian (despite a surname which in America is more common among Jewish people) and his slogan, "To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability," is an elaboration of a line in the Book of Acts.

Communism is a fairytale. It preaches that what a man takes from civilization need not correlate with what he gives back. This is the same fairytale taught by Christianity: don't worry about logic, fairness or the principles of economics; an imaginary supernatural creature will protect you and make everything alright.

You don't see a lot of Jews, Hindus or Confucians teaching people that they can slack off and somebody else will take care of them. This is strictly Christian thinking.

As for atheism being "valueless," it in fact has a very great value: it tells people that there are no gods and angels, therefore they're responsible for taking care of themselves and each other.

Atheism only stands in opposition to theism, the belief in a supernatural creature who created the universe and still controls it. Atheism is not an alternative to religion, which is much more than theism. Religion also includes morality. People do not have to believe in imaginary deities in order to have morals.

I am a moral person. I help my fellow man. I advocate peace, racial harmony, equal rights for women, kindness to the LGBT community, and compassion for immigrants from impoverished countries--all of which brings me into constant conflict with many people who call themselves "religious." I do my part to maintain civilization and also try to improve it. I strive to leave the world a little better than it was when I got here.

Being able to do these things does not require believing in the fairytales of the ignorant people of the Bronze Age. I am living proof of that. So please stop insulting me.

 

[Mazulu]

You haven't studied history. Communism is in fact an offshoot of Christianity. Karl Marx was a Christian (despite a surname which in America is more common among Jewish people) and his slogan, "To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability," is an elaboration of a line in the Book of Acts.

Communism is a fairytale. It preaches that what a man takes from civilization need not correlate with what he gives back. This is the same fairytale taught by Christianity: don't worry about logic, fairness or the principles of economics; an imaginary supernatural creature will protect you and make everything alright.

You don't see a lot of Jews, Hindus or Confucians teaching people that they can slack off and somebody else will take care of them. This is strictly Christian thinking.

As for atheism being "valueless," it in fact has a very great value: it tells people that there are no gods and angels, therefore they're responsible for taking care of themselves and each other.

Atheism only stands in opposition to theism, the belief in a supernatural creature who created the universe and still controls it. Atheism is not an alternative to religion, which is much more than theism. Religion also includes morality. People do not have to believe in imaginary deities in order to have morals.

I am a moral person. I help my fellow man. I advocate peace, racial harmony, equal rights for women, kindness to the LGBT community, and compassion for immigrants from impoverished countries--all of which brings me into constant conflict with many people who call themselves "religious." I do my part to maintain civilization and also try to improve it. I strive to leave the world a little better than it was when I got here.

Being able to do these things does not require believing in the fairytales of the ignorant people of the Bronze Age. I am living proof of that. So please stop insulting me.

If you are content with worldly things, with provables, then so be it. Live free. But for me, worldly things are not enough. I like it when spirit flows through me. I can feel it even if you can't, even if you think it's a fairy tale. It's not unlike the scientific community to dismiss as fairy tales what they do not perceive; the quantum wave-function is proof of this. You can't prove that the wave-function represents a real phenomena of nature. So you shrug and just dismiss it as "unreality". I can see that if the wave-function describes a real phenomena of nature, then it describes something ghostly and spirit-like. If the wave-function represents a real phenomena, then science can only resolve the tip of the iceberg.

I don't fault you for not seeing it. When you try to prove it, it collapses it. Just let it flow through you.

 

[geeser]

the quantum wave-function is proof of this. You can't prove that the wave-function represents a real phenomena of nature. So you shrug and just dismiss it as "unreality".

As it is called a theory, it clearly has not been dismissed, the big bang theory nor evolution theory have been dismissed either. When it becomes a theory, that is the best it can become.

When you try to prove it, it collapses it. Just let it flow through you.

It is nonsensical to try to prove a negative, it is nonsensical to try to prove a god.
Therefore the onus is on the one making a positive claim; I.E. you.
You have the burden, to prove your beliefs are not fairy tales.

And how do you let the nonexistent/unproven flow through you, Does it work like radio waves or sound waves or magnetism, however those are proven. PLease do explain how! Thank You!

 

[Mazulu]

As it is called a theory, it clearly has not been dismissed, the big bang theory nor evolution theory have been dismissed either. When it becomes a theory, that is the best it can become.It is nonsensical to try to prove a negative, it is nonsensical to try to prove a god.
Therefore the onus is on the one making a positive claim; I.E. you. You have the burden, to prove your beliefs are not fairy tales.

I have a better idea. I'll just let you argue with God in the afterlife. See ya!

Life is too short to spend it with God's firewood.

 

[geeser]

I have a better idea. I'll just let you argue with God in the afterlife. See ya!

Lol! Nutjobs abound!

Life is too short to spend it with God's firewood.

There's those lovely christian virtues. You Christians are so sweet.