The atrocities of Christianity

[wynn]

To tell you the truth, this intellectually constipated path is unbearably difficult. Furthermore, it yields nothing of value. In fact, it incurs a high cost of misery. I hereby renounce the path of intellectual constipation. Atheism and mentalism are a huge waste of time.

Yeah, your renunciation of the path of intellectual constipation lasted exactly 41 minutes.

Yet Pascal's wager seems interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

 

[wynn]

I think Christianity, specifically the teachings of Christ, have been misunderstood by those who lack wisdom. The whole point was to get people to take care of each other, to love each other. When you have wisdom, you can see that Christianity and other religious teachings are saying the same thing. It is men who fail to act with wisdom; and the result is bloodshed and war and harm and hatred and evil.

As long as the sword is wielded and the fire set by people who claim to be Christians, the blame is on them.

 

[wynn]

You, on the other hand, can believe it all you like.

All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing.

IOW, a permissive attitude of "people can believe whatever they want" is pernicious.

The point could even be made that non-theists need to be there to hold the theists in check, and that this is even part of God's plan.

 

[Neverfly]

All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing.

IOW, a permissive attitude of "people can believe whatever they want" is pernicious.

The point could even be made that non-theists need to be there to hold the theists in check, and that this is even part of God's plan.

Warning- Ad Hom Attack Follows:

Wynn, you're absolutely insane. You know that? You're a lunatic. You're three catholic priests shy of a choir boys picnic. For all your militant agnosticism, jumping down peoples throats when they question religious beliefs, asking "How can they possibly know that?" and basically just constantly stirring the pot, now you go and say this?! All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing. You're a damned cookoo bird.

/ad hom rant

 

[wynn]

Warning- Ad Hom Attack Follows:

Wynn, you're absolutely insane. You know that? You're a lunatic. You're three catholic priests shy of a choir boys picnic. For all your militant agnosticism, jumping down peoples throats when they question religious beliefs, asking "How can they possibly know that?" and basically just constantly stirring the pot, now you go and say this?! All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing. You're a damned cookoo bird.

And yet you know I'm right.

All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing.


:shrug:

 

[geeser]

I think Christianity, specifically the teachings of Christ, have been misunderstood by those who lack wisdom. The whole point was to get people to take care of each other, to love each other. When you have wisdom, you can see that Christianity and other religious teachings are saying the same thing. It is men who fail to act with wisdom; and the result is bloodshed and war and harm and hatred and evil.

You cannot equate Wisdom with Christianity or any religion for that matter, the two are mutually exclusive. Faith cannot be deemed wise.

Wisdom.

The quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

The fact of being based on sensible or wise thinking.
Oxford english dictionary.

What is sensible and wise about believing in the subjective I.E. Gods/Demons, Santa/Boggieman or Fairies/Orcs etc....

You have got it back to front sir.

Wisdom is gained from the objective facts.

 

[Magical Realist]

Warning- Ad Hom Attack Follows:

Wynn, you're absolutely insane. You know that? You're a lunatic. You're three catholic priests shy of a choir boys picnic. For all your militant agnosticism, jumping down peoples throats when they question religious beliefs, asking "How can they possibly know that?" and basically just constantly stirring the pot, now you go and say this?! All it takes for evil to spread in the world is for good men to do nothing. You're a damned cookoo bird.

/ad hom rant

LMAO! I too have picked up on the trollish nature of wynn. He/she follows everyone round asserting the contrary to every post with seemingly no interest in constructive dialogue. I'm wary of people like that. It's like they're trying to stir the pot like you said.

 

[wynn]

LMAO! I too have picked up on the trollish nature of wynn. He/she follows everyone round asserting the contrary to every post with seemingly no interest in constructive dialogue. I'm wary of people like that. It's like they're trying to stir the pot like you said.

I have no interest in merely taking sides in a discussion to then go on and on how "Woe is us! Bad bad atheists!" or "Woe is us! Bad bad theists!"

But it appears that what many people want here is that sides be taken and poo be flinged, and that's that.

 

[Magical Realist]

I have no interest in merely taking sides in a discussion to then go on and on how "Woe is us! Bad bad atheists!" or "Woe is us! Bad bad theists!"

But it appears that what many people want here is that sides be taken and poo be flinged, and that's that.

Wrong. A person who runs back and forth between two warring factions, at one point fighting for one side and then for the other, is interested in nothing BUT the war. All you want to do is stimulate conflict without intellectually committing yourself to either position. And that's the nature of a troll..someone who takes pleasure in nothing more than provoking controversy or poo-flinging.

 

[Cheezle]

Maybe you are one of the few who will suffer in the afterlife because you didn't understand the message. You didn't understand charity or helping those who are suffering or in need. It's not about which religion or philosophy you choose or not choose. It's about caring about others, it's about charity and love. Even the people who try to be compassionate and charitable go to heaven. But if you're too much of a scrooge in this life, then maybe you do go to hell in the afterlife.

This made me chuckle. You talked about the bible quote about rich men and camels getting through needle eyes and yet you missed the message entirely. Jesus was not talking only to rich men, he was talking to YOU (who are rich by the standard of most people). If you can't bring yourself (rich or not) to sell everything you have and give the money to the poor, then you are going to have a hard time getting into heaven because you are too attached to material things. So consider Jesus's challenge. Can YOU sell everything you have and give the money to the poor? I suspect not. You don't even have to do it. Just ask yourself if you could do it. I thought not, and so you will have a hard time getting into heaven. The message is clear. You might consider yourself a Christian, but the question is really, would Jesus consider you a Christian?

My personal suspicion is that if the rich man had sold everything the money would have been given to Jesus and his troupe. There is one born every minute, and I don't mean a messiah.

 

[wynn]

Wrong. A person who runs back and forth between two warring factions, at one point fighting for one side and then for the other, is interested in nothing BUT the war. All you want to do is stimulate conflict without intellectually committing yourself to either position. And that's the nature of a troll..someone who takes pleasure in nothing more than provoking controversy or poo-flinging.

And God died and made you God, riiight.

You are the ones who are not willing to discuss.
You are the ones who are not willing to look into things.

For all the confidence that you manifest, you tend to keep strictly to your comfort zone, to the point of dehumanizing everyone who doesn't keep to that zone as well.


You haven't gotten past your Christian past - you still have that smug sense of superiority.

 

[Neverfly]

And God died and made you God, riiight.

When you decide to use a straw man argument, you really commit.

You are the ones who are not willing to discuss.
You are the ones who are not willing to look into things.

If that was true, people wouldn't have anything to say to each other, here. But they do. They go back and forth. You, however, go all over the place. That is not discussion. That is not exchanging ones own ideas. That is just stirring.

For all the confidence that you manifest, you tend to keep strictly to your comfort zone, to the point of dehumanizing everyone who doesn't keep to that zone as well.


You haven't gotten past your Christian past - you still have that smug sense of superiority.

You know- humans in general get a superiority about them- the Christians believe they are often superior to others. Holy people that commune with God.
Many atheists believe they are superior to others because they exercise critical thinking and rational thought.
So on and so on. It's a human condition.

Question is, is an idea superior to another?

 

[Magical Realist]

And God died and made you God, riiight.

You are the ones who are not willing to discuss.
You are the ones who are not willing to look into things.

For all the confidence that you manifest, you tend to keep strictly to your comfort zone, to the point of dehumanizing everyone who doesn't keep to that zone as well.


You haven't gotten past your Christian past - you still have that smug sense of superiority.

Have a good life troll..

 

[Yazata]

But it appears that what many people want here is that sides be taken and poo be flinged, and that's that.

There's a certain kind of person who loves to display gang-colors, intended to create a sense of solidarity with others like themselves against the hated outsiders. We see that psychological dynamic every day in partisan politics, we see it in nationalism and racism, and (sadly) we often see it among militant atheists too.

 

[wynn]

Question is, is an idea superior to another?

Of course. You yourself effectively believe it is, otherwise you could not make evaluative claims about people and what they say.

Of course, it is not politically correct to talk about hierarchies, superiority and inferiority. But we operate with those concepts all the time. It's why we eat muesli for breakfast, but no coal.

 

[wynn]

You, however, go all over the place. That is not discussion. That is not exchanging ones own ideas. That is just stirring.

You know, if you don't like me or what I say, you could just say so directly, and spare us all the pc machinations.

:shrug:

 

[wynn]

There's a certain kind of person who loves to display gang-colors, intended to create a sense of solidarity with others like themselves against the hated outsiders. We see that psychological dynamic every day in partisan politics, we see it in nationalism and racism, and (sadly) we often see it among militant atheists too.

But this taking sides is apparently very pleasurable to some people! Arguably, this is why they do it.
Of course, not everyone finds pleasure that way, so when different kinds of people are put together in a communication situation, there is a conflict of interests.

 

[Magical Realist]

There's a certain kind of person who loves to display gang-colors, intended to create a sense of solidarity with others like themselves against the hated outsiders. We see that psychological dynamic every day in partisan politics, we see it in nationalism and racism, and (sadly) we often see it among militant atheists too.

Yes..people love group solidarity, particularly those like atheists who usually find themselves isolated from each other in an overwhelmingly religious majority. So what? Does this make us bad people?

 

[Yazata]

Wrong. A person who runs back and forth between two warring factions, at one point fighting for one side and then for the other, is interested in nothing BUT the war.

Or perhaps they are interested in the intellectual issues.

That's how philosophy works. It's about arguments and about how positions are justified and defended. It isn't about choosing one's side (atheist or Christian in this thread) and then flinging rhetoric (whether good or bad doesn't matter) at the hated opponents.

All you want to do is stimulate conflict without intellectually committing yourself to either position.

Perhaps Wynn doesn't think that this is the kind of good-guys/bad-guys issue that you're painting it as being. Perhaps there are subtleties here that others might not be appreciating.

And that's the nature of a troll..someone who takes pleasure in nothing more than provoking controversy or poo-flinging.

I think that this thread was just your way of shouting "FUCK YOU" at the Christians, an expression of your own personal hostility for them.

I wouldn't call you a troll MR, even though I do think that the thread is trollish. I realize that you're still fighting your own inner battles. The thing that you might not have considered is that maybe Wynn is fighting her own battles, battles that are just as real for her as yours are for you.

 

[Magical Realist]

Or perhaps they are interested in the intellectual issues.

It's hard to be interested in intellectual issues when you take no intellectual issue with either side.

That's how philosophy works. It's about arguments and about how positions are justified and defended. It isn't about choosing one's side (atheist or Christian in this thread) and then flinging rhetoric (whether good or bad doesn't matter) at the hated opponents.

That's why we're in a RELIGION forum and not a PHILOSOPHY forum. Religion by its very nature is a divisive topic of discussion just like politics is. It's just the nature of the beast.

I think that this thread was just your way of shouting "FUCK YOU" at the Christians, an expression of your own personal hostility for them.

Sounds like your attempt at censoring a topic you don't particularly like. Noone likes to think about these things, but they happened nonetheless. And they continue to happen. I'm bringing it up precisely BECAUSE it is such a taboo topic in our PC culture. "How dare anyone badmouth relgion? How DARE anyone associate the violence religion causes with the ideology of religion itself?" Well I'LL dare. And you can call me anything you like because of it.