The anti-Christ

No it doesn't. Regardless to what you might want to think, you can't just substitute every word in the bible for another one when it suits you to do so. I see it time and time again..

When i go through the whole noah saga i get told it's all a metaphor, but when i go through it from another perspective i get told it's total fact as it's written. One day the water isn't really water- it merely symbolises gods sadness and the next day it is actually water and everyone drowned. That's how you guys play the game and frankly i find it distasteful, ignorant and very sad. If you want to debate and contest an issue that's all well and good, but kindly don't bring it to such shallow depth. All of a sudden you have changed one simple sentence into whatever you want it to be. One second it's a mere vision, the next it represents any word in the dictionary you see fit. If this continues there'll come a time where the word god doesn't relate to a being but to a simple mans metaphor for the way of nature :bugeye: Imagine that!

By doing what you seem intent on doing, you make the bible more of a joke than it already is. I do respect and even enjoy the historical value and content of the bible, (same with Sumerian texts, chinese, egyptian, incan etc), but as i said, with the freedom to just substitute any word, sentence or paragraph the whole thing becomes a circus and you'll have lunatics claiming all kinds of irrelevant nonsense, not because that's what the evidence suggests, but because it suits them better.

Furthermore, i love the tactful way you hastily switched books.

"Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, and he said to him, 'All these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me.'"

"Then he took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a single instant."(Luke 4:5).

One only has a point until it's disputed, then you just use the next books version?

If you want to start playing that game, i'll get back to talking about jesus apparent last words. :rolleyes:
 
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Trinity being attacked.?! what does that mean.? do you have any reference or is it your guess.? hope you have not tried to get 6 by some odd means.
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I don't have any referance because well it's my theory.

There are some Satanic beliefs that may claim a Satanic trinity but I think they are just copying ideas from Christianity. I will describe this in more depth. The Dragon represents the Satanic father. This is who has the power and the authority to give to the first beast and second beast. The First Beast represents an attack on the Holy Spirit. "Then I saw a beast come out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads;" This represents the breath of the Dragon, "The serpent, however spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current." The second beast represents an attack on Christ. "Then I saw another beast come up out the earth; it had two horns like a lamb's but spoke like a dragon". His role is to heal the first beast and do great signs, so this was similar to what Christ did.
 
No it doesn't. Regardless to what you might want to think, you can't just substitute every word in the bible for another one when it suits you to do so. I see it time and time again..
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You cannot see all the magnicificance of the world on top of a mountain whether the earth is flat or round. This is why the text directly says in text that Satan showed him.

When i go through the whole noah saga i get told it's all a metaphor, but when i go through it from another perspective i get told it's total fact as it's written. One day the water isn't really water- it merely symbolises gods sadness and the next day it is actually water and everyone drowned. That's how you guys play the game and frankly i find it distasteful, ignorant and very sad.
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No one really knows what happended to Noah. The text is so old and shows evidence of three oral stories combined into one that I don't think anyone can draw any conclusion from it except that there was a flood and man named Noah.

One only has a point until it's disputed, then you just use the next books version?
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No, I'm only combining information that will allow a correct interpretation. Clearly Jesus was not looking at the world himself. Satan showed him.
 
could antichrist just be a label for christians to rally behind when they come up against what they believe is the antichrist? i'm no great believer of good and bad (god and devil are obvious correlations from the terms good and evil). both are things we have made up in an effort to understand things by giving them common terms. i think it's a serious issue though. many times in history christianity has shown itself to be misguide under careful supervision (basically all religions have- buddhism). it scares me to think what a group of such a size would do when such action started.

"there's the antichrist- ignore him"

"there's the antichrist- kill him"

"everyone who does not conform to our thought's must be purged as well"

such an event would easily come to fruition when emotions were whipped up- even the marginal believer would easily get caught up in the rightiousness of such action. i don't know, it's happened before and i'm not saying it'll happen again, but just that the belief is there that such a person will come to existance and cause much harm gives a basis for people to take what they believe is affirmative action that is correct. a good example would be the people who bomb abortion clinics in the US. is there anything further from what these people to what they believe? i'm not taking a dig here. but strong emotions and belief's sometimes lead to devastating behaviour. religion is just the best example of where human failings can shine brightest- despite the morals and the tolerance.
 
Simply ignoring a problem is not the best solution. The anti-christ will be almost impossible to kill though. It would probably appear to be suicide. Disaster is how you look at it. 5 or so killed in an abortion bomb a year verses 2 million babies. So is this really religion shining brightest or mankind?
 
Bravo okinrus

Originally posted by okinrus
.." Those 144000 = 12*12*1000 are the disciples of Christ. "They will not hunger or thirst anymore nor will the sun or any heat strike them." (Revelation 7:16). So the seal of God is the bread of life.
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Good deal, so out of the 2 billion christians that live today and over 10 billion christians that might have lived over history, only 144,000 are going to heaven. It sucks and more like idiotic to be a christian with less than 0.01 percent chance of survival:D . 99.99% of the christians are going to hell:D
 
Re: Bravo okinrus

Originally posted by Flores
Good deal, so out of the 2 billion christians that live today and over 10 billion christians that might have lived over history, only 144,000 are going to heaven. It sucks and more like idiotic to be a christian with less than 0.01 percent chance of survival:D . 99.99% of the christians are going to hell:D
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144,000, the. See Witnesses, Jehova's.

What you said above is not Christian doctrine. That is what happens when you read things without understanding.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
I believe that we we are right before or during the attack of the locusts. This means that we can expect one more cycle of grace until the final death of the world.

The seal of God that will protect us is the same seal that protected the Jews from the angel of death. "Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal." And in Revelation, "I heard the number of those who had been marked with the seal, one hundred and forty-four thousand marked..." Those 144000 = 12*12*1000 are the disciples of Christ. "They will not hunger or thirst anymore nor will the sun or any heat strike them." (Revelation 7:16). So the seal of God is the bread of life.

We can expect the mark of the beast to be the exact opposite of the seal of God. The beast must offer us a world apart from God and his Son and their instruction. "Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, and he said to him, 'All these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me.'"
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Jenyar,
I had to include the whole damn thing of Okinrus bogus interpretation of the bible. Am I missing something or doesn't he seem to be talking about us being in the locust age and prescribing how many people will survive, ect.... If that's exclusive to jehova wittnesses, then they are idiots, if that's an acceptable christian belief, then what's new.
 
I had to include the whole damn thing of Okinrus bogus interpretation of the bible. Am I missing something or doesn't he seem to be talking about us being in the locust age and prescribing how many people will survive, ect.... If that's exclusive to jehova wittnesses, then they are idiots, if that's an acceptable christian belief, then what's new.
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Flores,
If I understand it correctly, okinrus is not making any predictions. He uses texts from the Bible as symbols to produce a possible interpretation of the antichrist. It's a method that has been a Jewish and Christian tradition since the beginning. I think the Jews call it Midrash. It's a way of trying to extrapolate the meaning of something that is hard to understand out of multiple things whose meanings are better understood - such as the ten plagues of Egypt, the messianic purpose, etc. It's like connecting the dots to see what you get, to make hidden truths visible.

It's useful, but not set in stone. If you don't keep a lot of things in mind while doing it, you might miss a crucial aspect and get a "bogus interpretation" as you call it.

The "age of the locust" sounds more like something from the Chinese zodiac calendar than anything Biblical. It's a way of saying we live at the end times, something that Christians have believed ever since Jesus came. We know Jesus said He provides the bread that gives life, and in the Lord's prayer we ask God to provide our "daily bread". The 144000 is something that remains from the Hebrew mystical philosophy of numbers (gematria), where 7 is a divine number, 12 signifies completeness, etc. In this case it probably means "the complete number". Jehova's witnesses think it is a literal number of those who will be saved (I'm not sure how they hold on to it).

In the end, if you are not searching for any higher understanding, it's probably easier to just read the Bible:

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

An antichrist is, simply put, someone who does not believe Jesus was who he said he was.
 
Xian values?

Originally posted by okinrus
But your barely even know what your up against. It seems like your more against religious intolerance than against christian values such as love, trust, truth, etc.

Values such as love, trust, truth, etc., were not created by Xians and should not be credited specifically to Xians. All humans have the ability to have these values regardless of their faith. These are values within the human conscious and were given to us by the Creator of the Universe.

No, maybe your just drop dead gorgeous.

Although people tell me I'm a fine looking woman, I would say that my soul is "drop dead gorgeous."

Now the story of Tobit has a demon kill 6 husbands of one woman so there might be other explanations for this kind of behavior.
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You are definitely right about this. My ex-husband was raised a devout Catholic. I raised my children as Catholics. Then all of a sudden, with no mention of forethought, he up and decided to become a Mormon! My priest advised me to divorce him on the grounds of apostasy. The Church okayed it, and I was given a special dispensation due to the divorce. I continued teaching catachism though divorced. It was when I asked my priest certain questions I had about anthropology, the 'missing link,' and symbolism in the Bible, etc., he told me that "as a woman" I "shouldn't be asking these questions!" So I commenced my own research which led me to leaving the Church.

My ex-husband is now involved in some holy-roller, hands-on laying, charismatic fundamentalist church (Baptist I think) where he spends all his time and donates tons of money that isn't his. (By the way, he never paid me one penny of child support!). Since he spends all his time in church, he doesn't have the time to hold a job! He's living off of his elderly wealthy father. After an illustrious military career, he received a dishonorable discharged for 'behavior unbecoming of an officer' and was diagnosed as having schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, MPD, OCD, and psychotic depression, as well as a sexual identity crisis (he is a latent homosexual and a non-rehabilitated pedophile as well). But, by darn it, he's a born-again Xian, baptised by the fire of the Holy Spirit, and a devout Xian disciple whose personal savior is Jesus, and I am still the Anti-X.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
An antichrist is, simply put, someone who does not believe Jesus was who he said he was.
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Based on the Prophet Muhammed Hadith that I don't mind too much, the Anti Christ is a person who will come in the future and claim that he is the Christ. He will be hidous with one eye or something like that and he will be a fake christ.

An Anti christ is not one that doesn't believe in christ, he is the one that will do the harm and steal the identity of the christ. He will try to deprive christ of his natural glory of being the noble prophet of god by portraying Christ as an imposter ungratefull being who challenges god in his position. A fake christ, is someone who lies to the world about a christ experience. David Kuraish and other cult leaders seem to satisfy the criteria, but still they are not the anti-christ. The anti-christ will supposidly fight the real christ who the muslims believe will come since he never died to clear the world of misconceptions and evil. The real christ will fight the anti christ in a final battle.

My speculations of course.
 
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You are definitely right about this. My ex-husband was raised a devout Catholic. I raised my children as Catholics. Then all of a sudden, with no mention of forethought, he up and decided to become a Mormon! My priest advised me to divorce him on the grounds of apostasy. The Church okayed it, and I was given a special dispensation due to the divorce. I continued teaching catachism though divorced. It was when I asked my priest certain questions I had about anthropology, the 'missing link,' and symbolism in the Bible, etc., he told me that "as a woman" I "shouldn't be asking these questions!" So I commenced my own research which led me to leaving the Church.
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Your priest really said that? My aunt is married to a Jewish husband and they have no problems. However I think she is member of the Byzantine Catholic Church. Anyways you should probabyl trust only your own word on stuft like this.

My ex-husband is now involved in some holy-roller, hands-on laying, charismatic fundamentalist church (Baptist I think) where he spends all his time and donates tons of money that isn't his. (By the way, he never paid me one penny of child support!). Since he spends all his time in church, he doesn't have the time to hold a job! He's living off of his elderly wealthy father. After an illustrious military career, he received a dishonorable discharged for 'behavior unbecoming of an officer' and was diagnosed as having schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, MPD, OCD, and psychotic depression, as well as a sexual identity crisis (he is a latent homosexual and a non-rehabilitated pedophile as well). But, by darn it, he's a born-again Xian, baptised by the fire of the Holy Spirit, and a devout Xian disciple whose personal savior is Jesus, and I am still the Anti-X.
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You have a strange ex-husband. Maybe it's best that you stay far away from him.
 
Simply ignoring a problem is not the best solution. The anti-christ will be almost impossible to kill though. It would probably appear to be suicide. Disaster is how you look at it. 5 or so killed in an abortion bomb a year verses 2 million babies. So is this really religion shining brightest or mankind?
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basically what i said is religion can bring the worst out in us. re-read what i said and you should see that too.
 
Originally posted by atheroy
basically what i said is religion can bring the worst out in us. re-read what i said and you should see that too.
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Any belief can lead to fanatacism. Being "non-belief" might shield you from such a possible outcome, but being able to see the dangers of fanaticism means you probably are rational enough not to become fanatic anyway.
 
The Anti-X

Originally posted by okinrus

You have a strange ex-husband. Maybe it's best that you stay far away from him.
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I left him in Germany in 1981. He currently lives about 20 miles from me now. Since I 'destroyed him,' he is afraid to even come near me! He lost his mind many years ago. He occasionally prays on street corners around town and lays hands on to heal people.Mostly they're street people. He always had a histrionic streak. He's got some serious mental issues and he's untreated. He told me once that he was the Messiah. Yeah, right, and I'm Virgin Mary.
 
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