Thanks for your prayers

[superluminal]

Today my neighbor came to visit. I've been taking care of their lawn while they have their house worked on (they're living somewhere else temporarily). He also just had surgery done to fix a bulging disk in his back. He came over to thank me for my prayers (several times). He and his wife are super nice folks. I just smiled and said, "well, it's good you're feeling better" or something.

What really went through my mind was "I'm an atheist, I don't pray. What makes you assume I'm religious...?"

So, what occurred to me was that I've had many people tell me they were christians or they'd mention Jesus or some such. But I'v never told an aquaintance (neighbor, etc.) "I'm an atheist. Yeah, I don't buy into that religious stuff..."

My feeling is that that would alienate them. Whereas I accept statements from all sorts of theists all the time. Am I wrong? Why do I sense that atheism is looked upon like a disease by theists?

So, how have other atheists here dealt with theist acquaintances who talk about their religion? What about theists here who have encountered atheists. What was it like?

 

[Hapsburg]

Most theists that I know don't care if I'm an athiest or not. I don't argue with them, usually, because it's pointless to try to convince brainwashed people.

 

[Raithere]

He came over to thank me for my prayers (several times). He and his wife are super nice folks. I just smiled and said, "well, it's good you're feeling better" or something.

What really went through my mind was "I'm an atheist, I don't pray. What makes you assume I'm religious...?"

I've tried a number of different responses to this and similar situations, sometimes just to see what kind of reaction I get. The funniest was when I replied to "Jesus loves you?" with "Who?" "Jesus." "Sorry, I don't know any Jesus, you must have mistaken me for a Christian." They just kind of stammered for a while and left.

But you're right that replies such as, "I don't pray" or "I'm an atheist" is off-putting for theists more often than not. Which is rather ironic considering that they're the one making the faux pas.

I'll typically respond much as you did... although (presuming their Christian) it might have been funny to throw your hands up and shout "Allah-hu akbar!" In situations where people are looking for you to say some silly thing such as "my prayers are with you" I'll do much as dalahar suggests and offer my thoughts, or best wishes.

But no, dalahar, wishing someone well is not the same as praying. And it gets quite annoying to be put in a position so often where being honest is taken as an affront. I even got into a rather large argument once because I sat quietly but didn't bow my head, close my eyes, and thank your invisible buddy for my overcooked chicken dinner. You people can really be a bunch of fascist fuckers sometimes.

~Raithere

 

[Raithere]

I wouldn't have argued with you. But the rest of 'em were probably praying for a big steak and if you would have helped ya'll might have got it.

It didn't work when I was a kid and I know were were all praying for hotdogs and ice cream instead of turkey and brussle sprouts.

~Raithere

 

[Bells]

It is worse when you're the atheist and those around you are theists... some to the point of being fundamentalists... and they keep telling you to pray. Last week I had to spend some time in hospital due to some complications with the pregnancy... My dear mother and father, both Catholics, who know that I am pretty much an atheist came to see me in the hospital the day after I was admitted. As I lay there, terrified about what was going to happen and whether the baby was alright and whether I'd have to deliver a month early, my mother started to tell me that I should pray to Saint Anne as she would listen to me and help me in this time of need in my pregnancy. Poor dear was so worried that it was the only way she could cope with what was going on.. to pray.. My father looked at her and tried to pull her back by changing the subject, knowing that it would cause me more stress because I in turn did not want to hurt her feelings by telling her that I don't believe and therefore do not pray... When she realised what she had said, she looked at me and said to me that she could not understand how even 'now' that I could simply not believe. I will admit, it broke my heart at that point that I simply could not believe. I actually started crying because somehow deep down, I felt bad for not believing even when my child could be in danger. I actually tried to find some form of belief in me at that point as she looked at me and I simply could not find it. The look of pain on her face still bothers me even now. I don't know what it is about a mother's guilt inducing ability.. but she made me feel so guilty at that point... as though even through all my own pain and worries that I had to face the fact that I was still a disappointment to her because I simply did not believe as she does. It is a horrible feeling...

Some of my other relatives on the other hand came to see me and told me quite openly to my face that the reason all 'this' was happening to me was because I did not believe in God and that I was being punished. My dear other half told them to leave. He, very much an atheist, was appalled that people could actually say such things, especially members of my own family..

I never know how to reply to statements of 'you must pray to God', etc... especially when I am sick and it appears to be the only thing some people can say... as though praying will make everything hunky dory again. At times in the past, when I'd been quite ill with severe complications earlier on in my pregnancy, I actually felt like screaming in rage each time someone made that statement. But I'd keep quiet because to say simply 'no' to people who tell you to pray to God makes me feel like an ogre for some reason. As though I am some bad person because I just don't believe and I'd be offending them if I said 'no' or 'no thank you'. When in reality, most of these people know that I am an atheist and would know that it was in a way offensive to me to tell me to pray to something I don't believe exists..

 

[Raithere]

I never know how to reply to statements of 'you must pray to God', etc... especially when I am sick and it appears to be the only thing some people can say... as though praying will make everything hunky dory again.

I find it helps to think of them as children, hopelessly naive but with good intentions.

As far as those that told you that you were being punished I would have ushered them out of the room as well, with my boot in their ass to help them on their way.

Did I say "fascist fuckers" before? Somehow I forgot self-righteous, vicious, and cruel as well. I can see where the claims to a superior morality come from. It is just so obvious as they all so consistently display the love, compassion, and understanding of a nest of rabid vipers.

And these assholes wonder where the atheistic resentment of religion comes from.

For my part, I hope you are doing better Bells and wish you and your child the best of health.

~Raithere

 

[KennyJC]

It must be hard being an atheist in a country like the US being surrounded by fundies... you have my sympathy

 

[Raithere]

It must be hard being an atheist in a country like the US being surrounded by fundies... you have my sympathy

I shouldn't paint too bleak a picture.

Most Christians, even in the US, are very nice and typically respectful of other people's opinions, particularly those in the larger metropolitan areas where they've had some exposure to other beliefs and cultures. Even as a Christian I had never heard the creationist fantasy asserted as real or any suggestion that it should be taught in public schools until I was 16 or 17. There is, however, a small and growingly vocal minority that seems to be driving the public perception of Christians. And it is this group that is polarizing society.

There are fanatics in every society; the trouble comes when you give them center stage instead of marginalizing them as they should be.

~Raithere

 

[cosmictraveler]

Bells ........

I simply did not believe as she does. It is a horrible feeling...

Just explain to her that everyone is different and see's things differently through their own eyes and interperts things in many ways. Just because you think differently than your daughter doesn't mean you're wrong only that you are different than her which makes you ewach unique in the world. This should also show her that even though you both think differently that you both stioll love each other for your own beliefs no matter how different they happen to be. Nothing wrong with going down your own pathway holding hands looking at the world through each others eyes and sharing your views with each other. Just think what a place this would be if everyone thought the same way.

 

[Lori_7]

atheist...*sneeze*

anyone else..."God bless you"

atheist..."What's that supposed to mean?! Are you trying to convert me?! Don't shove that shit down my throat! It's a conspiracy and everyone is out to get me! I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!!!"

anyone else..."Whoa. My bad."

 

[Medicine*Woman]

So, how have other atheists here dealt with theist acquaintances who talk about their religion? What about theists here who have encountered atheists. What was it like?

*************
M*W: It's a difficult situation, and I haven't been as honest as I would have liked on some occasions. It depends on who the person is, their level of understanding, and how I feel about risking that friendship. I admit I may have selfish motives for not coming clean. I have a dear friend, a very bright woman who is an attorney. She is Vietnamese and suffered a lot in her country before coming to the USA. She's accomplished a great deal since coming here. She's also a fundie. I find myself when I'm with her saying such things as, "praise, Jesus," "through Jesus' precious blood," etc.. You get the picture. I'm making myself puke right now. Why am I doing this? I suppose for selfish reasons. If I keep my friend happy, I get free legal favors. If she ever knew I was an atheist, she wouldn't have anything to do with me. I really deserve the Academy Award for my convincing performance.

OTOH, strangers come up to me sometimes and start a conversation that leads to "prayers." Why they single me out for this, I'll never know. I'm more comfortable telling them right away that I'm an atheist. They usually look shockingly at me and walk off. That was my motive. For the most part, people don't understand atheism, and they look at us like we're lepers. Generally, I believe the average person only sees an atheist as someone without god in their lives. They don't understand that we believe in cold, hard facts and not the supernatural. To them, it's all about god, and they cannot see beyond their nose.

Still, I don't like faking it. As as rule, I don't do it, but with my attorney friend, I do, and I disgust myself by doing it. Even my closest family and friends know I'm atheist. Some like it, some don't. I just don't bring it up.

 

[Yorda_7]

He came over to thank me for my prayers (several times).

Maybe that's just a saying.
Maybe he didn't mean "prayers".
Maybe a prayer is a kind of a "hope".

Like when people might say: have you found Jesus yet? It means, have you found yourself yet? Have you become happy? Or something...

In my country, it's normal to be non-religious. Few people are religious, I think.. although I guess my country is supposed to be a Christian country since it has a horisontal cross on the flag.

 

[Raithere]

anyone else..."God bless you"

atheist..."What's that supposed to mean?! Are you trying to convert me?! Don't shove that shit down my throat! It's a conspiracy and everyone is out to get me! I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!!!"

Tell us honestly Lori, have you ever experienced this reaction in real life?

~Raithere

 

[Lori_7]

Tell us honestly Lori, have you ever experienced this reaction in real life?

~Raithere

All the time. All I have to do it say the word God or Jesus and you can immediately see the hairs sticking up on the back of every atheists neck...like fingernails on a chalkboard. As long as I'm not swearing that is, because they don't mind that at all. Shit, most times I don't have to even say anything remotely relating to God or Jesus or religion, just knowing that I'm a Christian automatically makes them defensive and hateful...no matter what we may be talking about.

This reaction is what this thread is all about...originally anyway. I was trying to make a point to SL...to lighten up.

Listen, I'm not saying that there aren't "christians" who try to shove the shit down people's throats in their holier than thou hypocrisy. But I wonder about those people, because JESUS NEVER EVER DID THAT...EVER. Makes me think that they don't know Him. People often use religion as some political platform or agenda. Not necessarily someone running for office, but some type of power play for whatever reason.

 

[Raithere]

All the time. All I have to do it say the word God or Jesus and you can immediately see the hairs sticking up on the back of every atheists neck...like fingernails on a chalkboard.

That's just our Super-Atheist Sense, it's like Spidey Sense except that instead of warning us of impending danger it makes us aware of any fundies or born agains in the immediate vicinity. That way we can high-tail it out of there before their eyes glaze over and they start babbling in tongues or some shit.

Listen, I'm not saying that there aren't "christians" who try to shove the shit down people's throats in their holier than thou hypocrisy. But I wonder about those people, because JESUS NEVER EVER DID THAT...EVER

You're joking right? Did you forget that whole scene in the temple? Seems to me he had a very definite opinion there and made sure everyone knew it.

~Raithere

 

[Lori_7]

That's just our Super-Atheist Sense, it's like Spidey Sense except that instead of warning us of impending danger it makes us aware of any fundies or born agains in the immediate vicinity. That way we can high-tail it out of there before their eyes glaze over and they start babbling in tongues or some shit.

You're joking right? Did you forget that whole scene in the temple? Seems to me he had a very definite opinion there and made sure everyone knew it.

~Raithere

He was IN THE TEMPLE. Do you know what the temple was supposed to be for? It wasn't like He was preaching on a street corner to the masses, or chasing down some atheist, or in some bar or brothel trying to tell everyone they're going to hell. If Jesus came here today, He would do the very same thing in most organized religious establishments that He did back then in the temple. And those within organized religion today, wouldn't want to hear what He had to say any more than the pharisees did back then. And most of the drones involved would be stupid and evil enough to hang Him right back up there on that cross.

 

[cole grey]

Bells,
If you chased after every possible religious "cure", you would spend all your energy (not to mention money), and would have nothing left to give to staying strong for your child. I'm sure you are doing everything you could do which you believe could possibly help your child, and you know lying isn't going to help.
You could always say that if there is a God, which you do not believe, but if there is one, a little help would be nice right about now, and you wouldn't have to interpret the results as anything, and just leave any thought about god at the hospital once you are home.
This would deal with the social problem, i.e., the ignorant people who would try to scare you into believing in God, and there is no damage done to your ideology.
Or don't do that, I wish you all the best possible medical cures, along with any real (or perhaps fantasy?) metaphysical cures, anyway.

P.S. MEDICINE WOMAN - It is no wonder you have resentment for xians and xianity, you might even be justifiying lying to a friend by addressing her religious beliefs (in your mind), as childishly unimportant, the way raithere would.

 

[Raithere]

P.S. MEDICINE WOMAN - It is no wonder you have resentment for xians and xianity, you might even be justifiying lying to a friend by addressing her religious beliefs (in your mind), as childishly unimportant, the way raithere would.

I didn't say unimportant, I said naive. I understand how much people emotionally rely upon the notion that praying will help affect the outcome of a situation. But the fact remains that it doesn't. The intent is well-meaning, if ineffective and naive, which was my point.

~Raithere

 

[cole grey]

I was pointing out that ideas a person would lie about, are either unimportant (to the person lying), or important, and being confusedly addressed/engaged.
Admitting that an idea is important to another doesn't mean you automatically give it its proper place of respect/understanding, even if your own views are radically different.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

P.S. MEDICINE WOMAN - It is no wonder you have resentment for xians and xianity, you might even be justifiying lying to a friend by addressing her religious beliefs (in your mind), as childishly unimportant, the way raithere would.

*************
M*W: Yes, this is a quandry for me. I love my friend and respect her, but I could never tell her the truth. I've given thought to which one of us needs the other one more, and I can honestly say that she needs me more than I "need" her legal services. She needs me to confide in about her relationships and her family problems. Come to think of it, she's downright needy. I've gone over to her mansion (yes, mansion) to keep her company when her husband left her, certainly not wanting anything in return but to comfort her. I'm beginning to see why I can't tell her the truth. She would experience another loss as would I. I know the members of this forum think I'm a mean bitch, and that's because of my disgust for christianity. Others who know me are overwhelmed by my compassion. I just don't have it for many christians.