Texas church refuses memorial for Navy vet

Tiassa

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
Officials at the High Point Church in Arlington, Texas, have decided, despite the words of their Lord and Savior, to reserve judgment for themselves:

A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off ....

.... The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men "engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing."

Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

"We did decline to host the service — not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle," Simons told The Associated Press. "Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it — yes, we would have declined then. It's not that we didn't love the family" ....

.... "Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness," Simons said. (Yahoo! News)​

For the church, this is all about image, and has nothing to do with faith. Whether we choose to indict just this church, or "megachurches" in general, or even, as some certainly will, the whole of Christianity in the United States, we should bear in mind that at the center of this is the choice to judge. Do they not believe that they, in turn, will be judged? Do they think that God does not know what is in their hearts? I mean, they admitted that this is about appearances. According to the article: "Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there."

The last thing, apparently, that the High Point Church wants is to appear to endorse compassion, mercy, and the comfort of Jesus Christ.

Cecil Howard Sinclair served the U.S. Navy in the first Gulf War, and died of an infection related to surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant. He was 46.

The website for High Point Church is: http://www.churchunusual.com
 
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They didn't harm anyone. A church is a group of like-minded people, if they didn't want to hold services for a gay man, they most certainly have that right.

Tiassa, you rail against the church for "judging others", yet here you are making judgements yourself. Doesn't that make you one of those ...hippo-fuckin'-critters?

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:

Tiassa, you rail against the church for "judging others", yet here you are making judgements yourself. Doesn't that make you one of those ...hippo-fuckin'-critters?
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Read the Bible. They allegedly believe in it. I don't. Their identity as Christians is supposed to reflect their belief. I don't share that belief.

So, no, Baron. I realize that integrity means nothing to you. (It is demonstrable, for instance, in your very complaint.) So what business do you have complaining about mine?
 
Tiassa said:
Read the Bible. They allegedly believe in it. I don't. Their identity as Christians is supposed to reflect their belief. I don't share that belief.
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You don't share that belief, and yet you're railing against their beliefs? Are you trying to tell them how they should believe and act? How do you feel that's your place to tell others how they should act and believe?

Besides, if you read that article, you'll see that they didn't make any judgements (that harmed anyone), they just didn't want to provide the area for the services.

Aren't you the very one who makes claims that gays should be allowed to do what they want as long as they don't harm others? Now that very principle is being turned back on you, and you don't like it. Why?

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:

You don't share that belief, and yet you're railing against their beliefs? Are you trying to tell them how they should believe and act? How do you feel that's your place to tell others how they should act and believe?
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When equality no longer has to bow to Christian demands, I will get the hell off their backs. But throughout my life, equality has always had to heed to Christian demand.

That they backed out of an agreement they made for appearances is obscene. It's not their place, according to Jesus Christ's words, which they purport to believe and obey to take this judgment into their own hands.

That's why it's disgusting. If I have to spend my life watching equality bow to Christians, the least they could do is be honest in their faith.
 
I'm with Baron on this one. I think they are closed minded arrogant fools, but they have a right to believe what they believe. Same as me. I don't like them, they don't like gays.
At least they aren't hypocritcal about it.
 
Tiassa said:
Officials at the High Point Church in Arlington, Texas, have decided, despite the words of their Lord and Savior, to reserve judgment for themselves:

A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off ....

.... The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men "engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing."

Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

"We did decline to host the service — not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle," Simons told The Associated Press. "Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it — yes, we would have declined then. It's not that we didn't love the family" ....

.... "Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness," Simons said. (Yahoo! News)​

For the church, this is all about image, and has nothing to do with faith. Whether we choose to indict just this church, or "megachurches" in general, or even, as some certainly will, the whole of Christianity in the United States, we should bear in mind that at the center of this is the choice to judge. Do they not believe that they, in turn, will be judged? Do they think that God does not know what is in their hearts? I mean, they admitted that this is about appearances. According to the article: "Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there."

The last thing, apparently, that the High Point Church wants is to appear to endorse compassion, mercy, and the comfort of Jesus Christ.

Cecil Howard Sinclair served the U.S. Navy in the first Gulf War, and died of an infection related to surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant. He was 46.

The website for High Point Church is: http://www.churchunusual.com
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it shouldnt matter who or what he had sex with, they should've done the service, he died for them, he died to keep those people safe. His sister did not ask them to marry to to his live long partner, and besides perhaps she would've been better having a church who isn't so bigoted doing the service anyway
 
I agree that they have every right to do this, but their reasoning doesn't make sense to me. They denied him a memorial because homosexuality is a sin and he was a sinner. But... everyone's a sinner! Surely providing the memorial service would have shown not that they endorse the sin, but that they endorse the principle of forgiving the sinner.
 
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It's impossible to discriminate against the guy, because he's dead. A church memorial is a meaningless ceremony. They have a right to perform or cancel their meaningless ceremony for any reason or no reason.
 
my problem with this is the service was already scheduled and then cancelled when they found out after the fact
 
John99 said:

You mean when equality exists?
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Well ... point, but equality won't truly exist until it stops bowing to iniquity.
 
It's in the Bible, but apparently that doesn't matter to them

My point depends specifically on the words of Jesus Christ, which Christians purport to believe:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." (Matt. 7.1-2, NASB)

• • •​

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25.41-46, NASB)​

That they should presume to judge and deny will only bring them the same, according to the Judgment they allegedly believe in.
 
Tiassa said:
My point depends specifically on the words of Jesus Christ, which Christians purport to believe:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." (Matt. 7.1-2, NASB)

• • •​

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25.41-46, NASB)​

That they should presume to judge and deny will only bring them the same, according to the Judgment they allegedly believe in.
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I wonder what their response would be if you presented them with this.
 
ashura said:
Surely providing the memorial service would have shown not that they endorse the sin, but that they endorse the principle of forgiving the sinner.
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No ...a sinner is only forgiven if he's repentant, if he tries to keep from sinning, if he goes to church and asks for forgiveness. The Bible does not expect us or anyone to forgive sinners who continue to sin ....and even revel in that sin!

Baron Max
 
Tiassa said:
That they should presume to judge and deny will only bring them the same, according to the Judgment they allegedly believe in.
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You, Tiassa, pretend not to judge others, yet you do it all the time. You're doing it right here in this thread. In any gay thread on this site, you'll make statements about us not judging others, or that we should let others do what they want as long as it's not hurting others. How can you hold that philosophy for gays, yet condemn this church for doing what they wanted to do ...and didn't hurt anyone in doing it?

Or is it that you want all others to think and believe what you believe ....but you won't give others that same right????

Baron Max
 
On another front ....

In a bizarrely coincidental flipside, Yahoo! News offers this for our consumption:

Homosexual Lutheran clergy who are in sexual relationships will be able to serve as pastors, the largest U.S. Lutheran body said on Saturday.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) passed a resolution at its annual assembly urging bishops to refrain from disciplining pastors who are in "faithful committed same-gender relationships" ....

.... The ELCA, which has 4.8 million members, had previously allowed gays to serve as pastors so long as they abstained from sexual relations ....

.... Since the ELCA was founded in 1988, the group has ordered three pastors in gay relationships to be removed from their ministries .... (Yahoo! News)​

The contrast, as I see it, is simple. The Church doesn't have to say gay sex is right. But the ELCA has, in this vote, chosen to put the judgment of condemnation and punishment into God's hands. This is called faith. And, though I am not a Christian, and though I think they're pushing a fairy tale, I do congratulate them for their integrity in faith.
 
John99 said:
As long as there are three humans on the planet equality will remain a fantasy. Sure we can pretend but...
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*************
M*W: Why as many as three? There was no equality when there were only two.
 
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