tell me your reason

[Enigma'07]

Which species are older than 10,000 years? I don't mean to challenge, I just haven't heard of this before.

how do you explain the dispersion of different species, the difference in species

The same way there are so many differant 2004 H2s. the car is created to have variety. Colors differ, options differ, but over all, it still was created. I believe the world was created for our enjoyment.

 

[Bells]

Inanimate objects cannot be convinced.

And yet somehow, you've managed to convince yourself that the voices in your head are angels.

People can be influenced by their experience and can change their minds all the time.

Leo, the only influence you're having on me at the moment is that you're making me squeeze my bum cheeks together as I cringe in embarrassment for you.

And believe me, you have not made me change my mind about religion and about the Catholic Church in particular. Instead, you've proven to me that I made the right decision in my teens to run like hell in the opposite direction.

Catherine Anne Porter must be a protestant and uses her argument to explain why the amoral and rebellious protestants have no miracles at all, let alone being able to summon them.

Are you Irish by any chance? Have a real hate of Protestants there don't you? And maybe the Protestants don't refer to superhero saints like you do because they are aware that stories are so easily blown out of proportion and made to be so fantastic each time it is told. Just think of the game where you have a group of people gathered and you tell one person a message and tell them to pass it on to the last person, where you can then hear whether the message is the same as you'd first told it, and in all cases, the message will be different and blown way out of proportion. Can you see where I'm going with this?

He came to the house and having nothing but one cut of meat left of the young man, brought him entirely back to life.

Oh you have got to be kidding me. Refer to above how it's so easy to blow things way out of proportion.

Your other little stories have kept me amused for 2 minutes or so, but in all seriousness Leo, bringing a cooked fish back from the dead? Butt cheeks squeezed in embarrassment for you again...

I'm wondering that with the amount of saints churned out by the Church and Pope of late, we're running the risk of having the dead walk amongst us. And if anyone brings the bacon I had to dinner tonight back to life... they will pay!

Saint Francis's Bishop told him not to show off but only use miracles for true emergencies.

Like Superman, he had to keep his underwear under his clothing until an emergency arose.

The Miracles of the Great Saints would still be miracles today. When considering the Impossible, not much has really changed.

No, they would be works of fiction. And you're wrong. Much has changed. The majority of the people on this planet have had some form of education in the course of their lives and have the ability to discern fact from fiction. Unlike the poor uneducated peasants of the time of the superhero saints, who were told that to believe anything other than what the Church told them would be a grave sin, most people today have the ability and enough knowledge to know what is fiction and what is fact. For example, most of us know that when we watch The Thunderbirds, that we're not seeing miracles at work. And yes, I did say most. Before I read what you've been writing Leo, I'd have said all, but now I say most.

 

[altec]

Well the shadiest part of the evolutionary theory lies in what is called the Camvrian Period. This is when life left the sea, and took to land, but for some reason there still have been no fossils found to explain the dramatic change to incite the creatures to emerge from the seas. This took place roughly 550 million years ago. There is also evidence that people arrived in Australia 60,000 years ago through carbon-14 dating. That doesn't sit too well with creationism either. This should tell you that there are many creatures that are older than creationism can account for.

An H2 is an inanimate object thats sole purpose it to go places. What I am referring to is more along these lines. Hoe do you propose to explain the fact that there are man7 species of plant, and animal that somehow transversed many miles of sea to all of these islands? When New Guinea was first discovered, there were people living there in the highest of the mountain peaks, whis is some of the most inhospitible terrain on earth, and they were growing sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes originate in South America. How did they get to New Guinea? Did these people swim to New Guinea and take some sweet patatoes with them?

 

[Enigma'07]

the pangea could have shifted and seperated into continents and islands over time. Be honest with you, I'm not an expert and I don't have all the answers. I do like seeing differant beliefs and why people accept htem.

I think that there might be some issues with the dating methodes that are used. There are so many of them that you can practically date something at whatever age you want.

 

[altec]

Enigma, if you do not know much about the evolutionary theory, may i suggest some reading for you?
The Moral Animal by Rodery Wright - delves into the human psyche and the ideas that are presented by Evolutionary Psychology
A Sort History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson - as it says, everything earth. He may not be the most scientific author, but I was surprised by his work.
In the Blink of an Eye by Andrew Parker - Wonderfully written book that attempts to tackle the problem behind the Cambrian Explosion
What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr - A great introduction into evolutionary theory.

The method of dating that I refer to is called Carbon-14 dating. They find bones, and they find an isotope of carbon that is found in all living matter - Carbon-14. They know the time that it takes fo this isotope to break down, so they look at the isotope in the sample, see how much it has degraded and figure out how long it would take for the carbon to deteriorate that much. It's a pretty reliable process, especially with the accuracy that scientists use now.

 

[Enigma'07]

but how do they know the break down occurs at a constant rate?

 

[altec]

I do not know the rate, because I have never used the dating system, but from what I understand, it is somewhat like the half-life of many of the elements that are radioactive.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Well, you may take a look here http://science.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm

or here: http://www.c14dating.com/

 

[altec]

Oh ok, so carbon-14 is actually radioactive, and they measure it by the half life. I guess I was closer than I thought....thanks for the links dreamwalker.

 

[Knife]

If I were to give Him proof, it would be a lot longer and none of you would obviously read it so I am breaking it into sections. Validating the Bible by first refuting those who say those who penned the Gospels were liars. And then moving on from there if he accepts what I gave so far.

of course, i accept what you have written so far. it is your belief. that is what i was asking, why you believe.

i am not one of those that accuse who penned the gospels as liars. i believe the bible to be a valid document in the sense that it is a biography of the life of jesus and his teachings. not only that, but a book with so many believers should not be shunned aside. however, as Gods' word, there is where i have a little trouble, due to content and the differences between the different books that make up the bible. as i am sure you could point out the same in other religious books.

now, if your response is that the bible and its' content is what leads you to believe and is evidence enough for you to believe in what what you believe, then i respect that.

that is kinda what i was looking for. you believe in christianity because the documentation in the bible makes sense and appeals to your logic as a human. of course there may be more reasons, but so far that is what i understand from your response so far.

thanks.

 

[Knife]

I like your preposition on this. Therefor I am glad to give you my reasons for believing in God.

First of all, what most of the people here will say, including myself, is that I have a feeling that God exist. That feeling is not just a reason for belief. It is the belief itself!

I have lost my belief many times, but I've allways felt a need to believe, and I've prayed God to let me believe.

The belief can't be constructed logically, thus I can't make you believe, no matter what I do (with one exception) - and therefor also my need to pray to God (though I would lie if I said that I didn't try to "construct" my belief to it's former self. I got far on that way, but the feeling I got never came close to the feeling of belief, though I did get some insights - but these were not made by me either - though I must admit, that I sometimes said they were and even *SHAME* lied about the way I came to the conclusion and thus hopelessly getting on the wrong path - the temptation was too great, since I clearly saw how I could have arrived to the same conclusion as the insight I got).

It's very sad when one looses her/his belief. Cause I know how desperatly we need it. Though many here will say we don't need it that much. But I felt so lost when I lost my belief, belief is a guidance, I still feel a emptiness inside. No "logic" could fill that hole. Cause I knew what I had. Thus had the full understanding of what I had lost. Allthough the understanding was replaced with emptiness. You only remember what you still have.

If I just become nothing when I die, then it would be so sad, cause then I loose EVERYTHING, even the thought that there is a world. That there is a reality. That there is something instead of nothing.

Ok, I guess it doesn't matter when I'm dead. But it matters now - and I don't want it to be so. When I hear other talk about death and that it isn't so bad to become nothing, then I feel that they don't see the full consequence of what they are saying. We should cry when we say that. Cause it is the end of time, truly the end of it all.

But.

I am aware. I am aware of my time here and now. The thing is, I don't feel that I would be aware here and now if I weren't aware after death. Cause if everything ends after death, then too ends the past me and the future me.


I realise that there are much anxiety in my post. But that's because there should be. Death isn't a easy subject and if I didn't express my anxiety for death, then I wouldn't be true to me nor you.

If the truth is, that I end with death then please don't tell me. If the belief of God is only because we would have the strength to live, then that too is mercy.

beautifully stated. thank you very much for your repsonse and insight.

peace.