Superstition entitles people to "special rights"?

Nonsense said:
That's a very broad question :p but I will share with you my general thoughts on religion.

For me religion is more of a thought process. A set of beliefs that we live by and try and satisfy. I mean if you ask me more specific questions I could lend more specific answers but I will say one thing that you may agree or disagree with.

I personally do not care what religion or belief system someone follows. As long as they are "good" and do "good" in the world for others and themselves, I am content. I am sure you have been a witness to this, but the general populous usually concentrates on the slight differences between for example the 3 main monotheistic religions. Which one came first? Who believes in the "real" god? Which one is the right one? and so on... But what many fail to realize is that all 3 have one major thing in common. They all preach the golden rule. It is so fundamental that just by typing "the Golden Rule" into Wikiepdia returns a thorough explanation of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity

Religion has unfortunately taken a wrong turn and has become more of a "crutch" and opiate for society as Freud and Marx explained respectively. Pretty much I feel that if we would take this small step of concentrating on just this one "golden rule" the world would be a better place.
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Welcome to the board...I like you already...dude?...dudette?

spidergoat said:
I think this is actually a fantastic precedent. My religion requires me not to have a photo on my license as well, also to smoke pot every day, and take mushrooms and acid sometimes.
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We belong to the same religion. :) but you forgot to throw in that bit about not paying taxes, and how it's a sin not to drink beer in excess.
 
MacGyver1968 said:
Welcome to the board...I like you already...dude?...dudette?
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Well thank you very much. And I assume that with your pretty high post count, your opinion is quite valued on this forum. THE POST COUNT IS GOD :D Oh and its dude. I was thinking of keeping it a secret, but I guess I took the fun out of guessing :)

spidergoat said:
I think this is actually a fantastic precedent. My religion requires me not to have a photo on my license as well, also to smoke pot every day, and take mushrooms and acid sometimes.
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And what religion may that be? Life? heh
 
Nonsense said:
And I assume that with your pretty high post count, your opinion is quite valued on this forum......
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About as much as "Carrot-top's" opinions on the deglobalization of worldwide stabilization of market funds. :)
 
I don't disagree, and yet I do ... or something like that

Asguard said:

After all tiassa we are talking about the country were random breath tests are "police harrasment". i can quite easerly see americans in general complaining about there photo being in a centeral database period
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As I've noted before, if the Crown hadn't been so damnably intrusive, we wouldn't have established such firm rules against search and seizure. In fact, were it not for the conduct of the Crown, we might not have separated at all, and conceivably could still, to this day, like our Australian neighbors, look for any opportunity to brown our noses with Her Majesty's rose-scented shite.

However, such as it is, consider the idea of using dogs to conduct random searches: these searches were ruled acceptable on the grounds that the dogs were not searching you, but, rather, the air molecules near you in order to establish probable cause for further invasive search.

We owe such fine distinctions to none other than the British monarchy.

As to complaint about a digital photograph, that's one thing. Regardless of whether they are nuts or merely scurrilous intellects begging any excuse to exclude themselves from the law, all I need to reconcile myself to such an outcome as we have in West Virginia is a convincing scriptural argument. In this case, there doesn't seem to be one. Thus, I am—personally, as well as politically—perturbed at the outstanding hypocrisy of the situation.

The issue of a federal identification standard should be argued on its legal and functional merits, not some spurious theological claim that results in exclusive privilege for people pretending that they are Christians.
 
i think we need to sperate the 2 issues

the first being the possable reasons why they wanted to be exempt in the first place and to be honest it conjures up images of rednecks with automatic weapons hiding in a cabin wating to the world to end (to be compleatly fair its very had not to use this stero type when thinking about the whole of the US and i KNOW your guys)

the second is i agree the more concerning and thats the fact that the goverment actually went out of there way to give into them on the basis that they are religious. on a side note, I wonder if muslim exstreemists could use this excuse:p

Oh and on the history of the whole thing can i just point out that Australia started as a penal collony, (ie not much freedom at all, VERY opressive goverment) and we dont fear our goverment. Futher more our pollies only fear us in the political sence, if the PM came to adelaide its quite possable i could go right up to him without being stopped. The goverment is here to serve us not the other way around. I assume the same is true in england.

One last point, wasnt canda invaded at the same time as the US and under the same policies? i really think if the US doesnt get the chip off its shoulder then you will destroy yourselves without any external influances at all
 
Funny how no one cares that state governments are also selling your biometric info (processed photos) to insecure firms with less than good track records. Why?
 
spidergoat said:
I think this is actually a fantastic precedent. My religion requires me not to have a photo on my license as well, also to smoke pot every day, and take mushrooms and acid sometimes.
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Druggyanity? Sign me up!

Seriously though no one should get special rights but me. :D
 
(Insert title here)

Asguard said:

One last point, wasnt canda invaded at the same time as the US and under the same policies?
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You're referring to colonial history? It's a slightly different tale, but one might justly wonder if Canada ever would have gotten around to establishing its independence at all if the U.S. had remained part of the happy British family.

i really think if the US doesnt get the chip off its shoulder then you will destroy yourselves without any external influances at all
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I don't think you'll find me protesting that point at all.

Insofar as why Americans wanted to be "exempt", it was a matter of resenting abuses. As relations between the colonies and the homeland soured, the Crown's response was intolerable. Our Third Amendment, for instance, is one you don't hear much about. The Third Amendment—

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.​

—is, like much of the Bill of Rights, a direct response to the behavior of the Crown. At a time when people are being imprisoned and fined excessively for lampooning or criticizing His Majesty, taxes are increasing viciously without any substantial parliamentary representation, people are "being disappeared" without trial, the authorities are breaking and entering, searching and seizing without any reasonable pretext, and the people are starting to get sick of it, imagine next that suddenly a bunch of troops arrive in order to suppress discontent among the population, and you are literally expected to house and feed them in your dwelling and out of your own pocket.

Just out of curiosity, how often do Australian troops, or even the local police, come around and randomly search your home to make sure you're not saying anything bad about Her Majesty?

It's not about exemption. The Fourth Amendment reads,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.​

That boldfaced portion is the big difference. Roadblocks and random breath tests do not meet the standard of probable cause, and cannot reasonably describe the places searched or persons and things to be seized.

These were not random standards invented out of thin air, but rather a calculated response to the tyranny the colonists had endured for the sake of a lunatic monarch, inbred and idiotic parliamentarians, and excessive corporate greed.

If I pass on the question of Muslim extremists, it is because the phrase includes too broad a spectrum for specific consideration.

But I will note that the general social contract of Western nations involves the government operating in service to the people. Indeed, if we consider the Preamble to the United States Constitution—

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.​

—we will find the same is true of the American government. One of the challenges facing the Republic at this time is that the politicians don't seem to care any more, and the people are, despite their complaints to the other, perfectly happy to endorse that perverted pretense.

I don't know ... I think there's something I've forgotten here, but I'll think of it in due time.
_____________________

Notes:

United States Constitution. See http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/index.html
 
umm tiassa, you do realise i could change the crown to the US goverment. ALL of that your doing in iraq and afganistan and half of it is happerning right now in the US

secret renditions, tourcher, siezure of property ect
Your constitution and your guns havent helped you at all.
 
Thbpbpbpbpbpt!

Asguard said:

umm tiassa, you do realise i could change the crown to the US goverment. ALL of that your doing in iraq and afganistan and half of it is happerning right now in the US

secret renditions, tourcher, siezure of property ect
Your constitution and your guns havent helped you at all.
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Actually, it has helped us a great deal. After all, now we are abusing other people, instead of being so directly abused.

To the other, though, it is a tragedy of the American experience that our greed has led us to such a condition.

And to yet another, that's rather beside the point for the moment.

Seriously, mate, consider who you're reminding of American sins. You're preaching to the choir on that count.

But yes, our Constitution and our guns have done a great deal. We have routed the indigenous tribes, supplanted the British, exceeded the Spaniards and the Holy Roman Empire, seen the Ottomans crumble, outlasted the Soviet Revolution, and still have enough influence that massive peoples such as in India or China are only now emerging to power.

One way of looking at it is that without our Constitution and our guns, we would merely be an outsized Australia or Wales.

Nor should we overlook that the greatest early influences in American history, which voices still echo from sea to shining sea, were those of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

In the meantime, our heritage includes noble mythical aspirations. The challenge is to live up to those principles despite our waspish vices.
 
Indeed

Roman said:

They're too late- the devil already came and went with social security numbers.
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The thought struck me, too. Nor was I surprised when some started sweating the prospect of wrist-mounted microchips to act as identification, credit card, &c. The Devil be damned, but I'm not a fan of that idea, either.

But the West Virginia objection doesn't have nearly the direct scriptural argument.
 
i have to ask, what the hell is a social security number?

Is it like a tax file number? or the health care card the goverment gives to people on wealfare and low incomes? i cant imagin its like the medicare card as you dont have a universal health care system
 
Yes

Asguard said:

Is it like a tax file number?
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Yes. Pretty much exactly. You need one to legally work in the United States. Foreign workers on visa must obtain a TIN, or Tax Identification Number. They're structured XXX-YY-ZZZZ, but don't ask anyone to offer up their own. It's one of those things we're supposed to jealously guard, and can be a prize for identity theft.

 
why are you all so worried about them then?

all a TFN is used for is for the ATO to identify who you are, technically you dont have to give it for a bank acount or even a job but if you dont then you have to be taxed at the top tax bracket and then claim it all back so its much easier. apart from that who cares?
 
Depends ... each to his own, I suppose

Asguard said:

why are you all so worried about them then?
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The only people who really worry about such things are apocalyptics who fear that Social Security numbers or digitized driver's license photographs will somehow deny them their place in Heaven.

I did once hear a great theory that SSNs were catalog numbers making American citizens collateral for some sort of economic bailout, but I was really high at the time, and the source, while a genuinely nice guy, would not be someone I consider reliable on such matters. Nonetheless, it was entertaining as hell.
 
If I could find a way (any way will do) to avoid yet another copy, digital or otherwise, of my details and mugshot to be in the hands of the Gov., I'd certainly take it.

Retinal scans, fingerprint scans, movement and walk-profile scans - all realtime and all available now. They don't even need DNA to peg you with 99.99% accuracy.
Hmm, I guess the DL looks kind of irrelevant, sofar as retaining any semblance of privacy, in the moddin werld.
 
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