Summerians

[Jan Ardena]

I don't think the Bible mentions anything about 24 hours, but it does say a morning and an evening was considered a day. Obviously, those who wrote the Bible weren't there to see creation unfold, but they wrote it in such a way so that it would make sense to those reading it such that a day was considered a day by normal standards.

The bible isn’t just one book. It is a compilation of books. I’m quite sure you’re aware of that.
Also, I doubt that folks sat around with their chisels and hammers thinking how to word stuff, so that their potential audience would comprehend it. I’m just saying.

 

[(Q)]

That’s quite possible, but it is highly doubtful.

In Peter 3:8-10 it states... But beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the the a Lord one day [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Lord Brahmas 12 hour day, is said to equal 311 trillion years, and the same for his 12 hour night. The day of Lord Brahmas day is said to be simply the exhalation of breath from God, and the duration of of Lord Brahmas night is the inhalation.

Not arguing that this is true. Just giving an idea of a possible bigger picture.

Perhaps, but I believe Genesis itself makes clear what is to be considered a day, the quotes you mention above were used in completely different context and were not based on a calendar, but more for philosophical thought. The Genesis quotes refer specially to a time frame.

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

 

[(Q)]

The bible isn’t just one book. It is a compilation of books. I’m quite sure you’re aware of that.
Also, I doubt that folks sat around with their chisels and hammers thinking how to word stuff, so that their potential audience would comprehend it. I’m just saying.

Maybe they did think about making sure others understood, the text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Perhaps, but I believe Genesis itself makes clear what is to be considered a day,

I agree. But we have a difference of opinion on it.

the quotes you mention above were used in completely different context and were not based on a calendar, but more for philosophical thought.

That is your opinion, and I respect that.

The Genesis quotes refer specially to a time frame.

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

At what point in time, and from whose perspective, and vantage point?
As far as I can tell, it is from Gods.
But let’s say it is from a god, like Lord Brahma.
I gave already gave you his reference of time.
The god of heaven, according to Vedic cosmology, has a ridiculous time reference compared to ours, and nowhere near that of Lord Brahmas. That is how I look at it.
All scriptures and cultures are connected. Obviously Christians don’t look at it like that, but I’m not of the Christian religion.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Maybe they did think about making sure others understood, the text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). I

There are other scriptures which concentrate on these matters. So it is only a figure of speech if you choose to see it that way. There is no reason for me to disregard other scriptures.

 

[Sarkus]

I have my opinion, and you have yours.

Then you really should learn to write them as if they are your opinions, and not as some pronouncement of fact. I take it that during your absence from this site you haven't forgotten the difference between "it is..." and "I think it is..."?
And if all you're going to reply is to say that we each have our opinion, probably better for you not to bother replying at all, as such a comment doesn't actually add to anything.

From what I can see it means that a thousand years from our perspective, is but one day from the Lords perspective. But your free to see it how you like.

And you're free to be wrong. So we're all free

Also, I doubt that folks sat around with their chisels and hammers thinking how to word stuff, so that their potential audience would comprehend it. I’m just saying.

I so hope you were being sarcastic, realise how foolish you are being, 'cos otherwise it seems you think they would just chisel away without any intention of what they wrote being understood. And I'm reasonably sure even you aren't that ridiculous... but there's enough doubt in my mind to question it of you.

 

[billvon]

Final question: Should these Summerians be a subject any relevant class?

Definitely. And of course you'd have to include the Winterians to have a balanced view.

 

[billvon]

I so hope you were being sarcastic, realise how foolish you are being, 'cos otherwise it seems you think they would just chisel away without any intention of what they wrote being understood. And I'm reasonably sure even you aren't that ridiculous... but there's enough doubt in my mind to question it of you.

Reminds me of that scene from the Holy Grail:

ARTHUR: What does [the carving] say?
MAYNARD: It reads, 'Here may be found the last words of Joseph of Arimathea. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the Holy Grail in the Castle of AAAARRRGGGGHH!'
ARTHUR: What?
MAYNARD: '...The Castle of AAAARRRGGGGHH!'
BEDEVERE: What is that?
MAYNARD: He must have died while carving it.
LANCELOT: Oh, come on!
MAYNARD: Well, that's what it says.
ARTHUR: Look, if he was dying, he wouldn't bother to carve 'aarrggh'. He'd just say it!
MAYNARD: Well, that's what's carved in the rock!
GALAHAD: Perhaps he was dictating.
ARTHUR: Oh, shut up.

 

[(Q)]

I agree. But we have a difference of opinion on it.
That is your opinion, and I respect that.

Actually, I read that from a variety of online articles from religious scholars, they all seem to agree it's a simile and not factual.

At what point in time, and from whose perspective, and vantage point?
As far as I can tell, it is from Gods.
But let’s say it is from a god, like Lord Brahma.
I gave already gave you his reference of time.
The god of heaven, according to Vedic cosmology, has a ridiculous time reference compared to ours, and nowhere near that of Lord Brahmas. That is how I look at it.
All scriptures and cultures are connected. Obviously Christians don’t look at it like that, but I’m not of the Christian religion.

While it may be from God's perspective, the books of the Bible were penned by men, so we have to either assume it was dictation from God or those men's own personal interpretations. From the perspective of religious scholars, who understand many of the things written were not factual but instead parables, which would indicate the concept of a day being a thousand years would seem more philosophical than factual.

 

[(Q)]

There are other scriptures which concentrate on these matters. So it is only a figure of speech if you choose to see it that way. There is no reason for me to disregard other scriptures.

It's not just me who sees it that way. Have a look at some of the explanations religious scholars offer in regards to those quotes.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Then you really should learn to write them as if they are your opinions, and not as some pronouncement of fact.

Oh shut up!
Then take a look at your own narrative.
Hypocrite!
Don’t bother responding to me if you’re going to have hissy fits. I’m not here for that.

 

[Jan Ardena]

It's not just me who sees it that way. Have a look at some of the explanations religious scholars offer in regards to those quotes.

I have done.
But ultimately the decision, as a theist, is mine.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Actually, I read that from a variety of online articles from religious scholars, they all seem to agree it's a simile and not factual.

There quite a few religious scholars, throughout the last few hundred years, from various different cultures. Ultimately God- centered religious practise and insight is between the individual and God.

While it may be from God's perspective, the books of the Bible were penned by men, so we have to either assume it was dictation from God or those men's own personal interpretations.

That maybe yours and a few wester theologians understanding. But as I said it is ultimately a relationship between God and the individual.
I know you don’t believe in God, but surely you can understand that, at least to some degree.

From the perspective of religious scholars, who understand many of the things written were not factual but instead parables, which would indicate the concept of a day being a thousand years would seem more philosophical than factual.

I think some religious scholars can offer some insight into the historical aspect of scripture, and some do a pretty decent job of the philosophical aspect. But ultimately the spiritual aspect, the essential point of God based religions, is between the God and the individual. You understand that. Right?

 

[(Q)]

There quite a few religious scholars, throughout the last few hundred years, from various different cultures. Ultimately God- centered religious practise and insight is between the individual and God.

That maybe yours and a few wester theologians understanding. But as I said it is ultimately a relationship between God and the individual.
I know you don’t believe in God, but surely you can understand that, at least to some degree.

I think some religious scholars can offer some insight into the historical aspect of scripture, and some do a pretty decent job of the philosophical aspect. But ultimately the spiritual aspect, the essential point of God based religions, is between the God and the individual. You understand that. Right?

I totally get that, Jan, and I'm glad you understand that as well considering there are a great deal of religious folks who don't.

I'm not sure, but are you saying that your relationship with God is such that you know for a fact one day equals a thousand years in regards to the quotes? Or, is it still more philosophical for you?

 

[davewhite04]

I don't think the Bible mentions anything about 24 hours, but it does say a morning and an evening was considered a day. Obviously, those who wrote the Bible weren't there to see creation unfold, but they wrote it in such a way so that it would make sense to those reading it such that a day was considered a day by normal standards.

Why would it mention 24 hours? What is your point?

 

[davewhite04]

???

Sikhism is one God too.

 

[davewhite04]

The “God of the bible” is as the old as people have been calling it “the god of the bible.
God, on the other hand is not influenced by the passing by of time.
Come on Dave, you comprehend this.

Great thread though!

He is, he's human after all.

 

[davewhite04]

I have my opinion, and you have yours.

From what I can see it means that a thousand years from our perspective, is but one day from the Lords perspective. But your free to see it how you like.

So what would that achieve? What difference does it make? What are you thinking?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Or, is it still more philosophical for you?

Yes.

 

[Jan Ardena]

He is, he's human after all.

Is that so?