yeah, it's all christ's fault. it's all the bible's fault. let's completely ignore the hopelessness embedded in today's society. everything is institutionalized, commercialized, industrialized, and about making money. quality of life is going down the toilet at about the same pace as technological advancement. people are lonely. people are desperate. people are on drugs. our role models are hollywood starlets, overpaid athletes, and shitty pop artists. everything is disposable. why not people too? and let's forget about everything good taught in the bible like the importance of charity, and forgiveness, humility, truth, and love. let's forget that christians are not supposed to judge or condemn others, but to set an example. a light for others to see...not a spotlight for an interrogation. yeah, religion sucks for all the reasons you all think it sucks...i agree. but it's not god's fault, and it's not christ's fault, and it's not the bible's fault. if there is fault, and there is plenty, it belongs to the practitioners.
Suicide and Christianity
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
If this young man did indeed commit suicide as a result of his parents drilling these ideas into his head everyday, then Christianity is not to blame. They are. Decent Christian parents would of course have been strongly encouraging their son to devote himself to God, but would have also ensured that he didn't feel condemned by them. After all, it is not the role of a Christian to condemn anybody. Instead they should be leading others to God by being shining examples of what it means to be a genuinely decent human being. If this was the case, then this young man wouldn't have felt like he was in that much more of a difficult position than anyone else who is free to chose to follow, or not the follow, the teachings of the Bible.
Also, and I know many of us including myself are making assumptions here given the limited information we have to go on, but I wouldn't be surprised if the parents are even less "right" with God, according to the teachings of the Bible, than their son was.
The Bible clearly teaches that in the eyes of God, it is better not to be a Christian at all than it is to be a Christian in name only. Nothing disgusts God more than a half-arsed hypocritical idiot condemning others in his name. I'm sure that many of us share God's position on this point. Again, it's always the people that do the real damage to each other in this life.
The Bible clearly teaches that in the eyes of God, it is better not to be a Christian at all than it is to be a Christian in name only. Nothing disgusts God more than a half-arsed hypocritical idiot condemning others in his name. I'm sure that many of us share God's position on this point. Again, it's always the people that do the real damage to each other in this life.
Finally, and please forgive me for this quick succession of posts, but I'd also like to suggest that maybe the parents aren't entirely to blame, if at all. Having known people and the families of those people who have committed suicide, it's sometimes difficult to lay the blame on anyone. I've seen people struggle to cope with a depressed family member. I've seen them make sacrifices and do everything they can think of to try to help. But we are all human, and we don't always know how to fix problems. Sometimes, no matter what we do, tragedy will strike.
I am also sure that most people here will have at least read about a suicide that came as a complete shock to everyone who knew the person. No obvious signs of depression and then bang, gone, and everyone is left trying to understand how it was even possible.
I am also sure that most people here will have at least read about a suicide that came as a complete shock to everyone who knew the person. No obvious signs of depression and then bang, gone, and everyone is left trying to understand how it was even possible.
I agree, because I know how this works, having myself been an atheist/undecided at the mercy of "loving Christians".
There is something fundamentally evil and insane about the main premise that everyone who does not accept Jesus deserves to burn in hell for all eternity, with no chance of redemption. It says that a person is so corruptible that nobody, neither the person themselves, nor God, nor anyone else, can or wishes to do anything about it; that there are mistakes and crimes for which no amends can be made, ever. It says that God's willingness to help people is limited.
When people believe such things, in the name of God, this also reflects in how they treat others.
I think that in the name of "religious tolerance", this belief about eternal damnation is often being overlooked, or presented as harmless, because "everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs".
Of course, we do not know the full story of what happened in that family, we don't know how much that child was pressured in the name of Christianity.
But I do believe that Christians have it in them to drive someone over the edge.
.
My condolences for the friends and family.
Xtianity is insane and this is part of its malignant form. Why do you subject yourself to it?
why wouldn't they? seems to me it would be even more reason to do so.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Why? And wouldn't that make them better then God?
Then it is both a sin and is also a ticket to heaven at the same time for the Islam suicide bomber. Do you think the Islam suicide bomber thinks his act will send him to heaven or hell? I think to heaven. Why does he think that? Is it not because of the teachings in the Qur'an? And is he right?
I agree, let's not.
I am just asking that you don't completely ignore the hopelessness, worthy only of eternal fire and torture, etc. paint brush that Christianity paints the entire unbelieving world with as well. I see a real danger here.
I agree, let's not.
There exists much good in the Christian religion and in the Bible but let's not fail to see that there also exists some evil. Almost everything on this earth that man is involved with is like this. The Bible (which man was also involved with) does teach some evil things, that is undeniable personally to me at least. That takes the Bible out of the "perfect", "inspired word of God", standing and brings it down to some degree. Does that mean that it is all false and evil? No, I am not saying that either.
It does not even take "bad parents" for this to happen. This kid was loved. I think that it is just part of growing up and living in that environment. I think kids can be motivated to do this because they feel like they are such a failure and disappointment to their loving parents and feel like they bring shame to their whole family. They can perhaps think that because of them their parents feel like they have failed as well. And they hate bringing pain and heartache to them simply by their very existence.
Possible, but I don't know.
I think that the Bible can often confuse well meaning people by presenting two opposite views on the same topic as "truth".
The parents indeed probably were not directly to blame in their intent. Undoubtedly this is not the end game they wanted or were praying for. I just think that the Christian world as a whole is almost completely blind to the possibility that this can and does happen to children in the Christian family and Church environment. They are in almost complete denial of this danger.
At least some of the members of this young man's church are apparently waking up to this danger, at least from what I have heard this week. They are now worried about their own children. Some small good!
Thank you very much for your comments!
Best Regards!
Generally, they do not.
After reading this thread, I thought I would Google for some statistics.
I tried "suicide rates Christianity atheism"
Before we go further, let me remind those who have forgotten and inform those who do not know that I am agnostic, or "ignostic" to be more precise. If anything I lean towards the atheist ticket, but not by much...
Anyhow, I expected to find studies showing positive correlations between suicide and atheism, but was wary of sites slanted to or ran by Christian groups. I figured I have to do some quote mining to find any dissenting opinions.
However, I was not prepared for the total absence of any quotes supporting the opposing view, namely, that Christianity or religiousity in general correlated with suicides and and suicide attempts.
Not being wiling to spend all day, I tried to select a representative quote from what appears to be a relatively unbiased site:
www.mentalhelp.net
I was really quite surprised at this outcome, but seems at first glance to be somewhat of a more popular position than the converse. It is nearly impossible to quickly find a study that supports the converse, that suicide is more likely if you are a Christian.
First page of Google:
So - do we go with: :shrug:
- Not enough effort put into searching for studies to back up the atheist position
- Too many studies biased towards religion to find one that tells the "truth"
- Accepting that suicide is, in fact lower among those with an affiliation with a religious group
- Some other anomaly
The first one is an easy choice, but go ahead and knock your socks off trying to find some other conclusion. :bugeye:
More importantly, is this the result that most of the agnostics / atheists here would have expected?
What about the theists? (Silly question probably, but, in the interest of fairness, etc...)
What do ya'll think? I was surprised, for sure...
because love is theraputic, and is representative of god and of christ (to answer your 2nd question).
i know i've told you this before...hell is not a punishment, it is a chosen state of existence. can't you see that when you look at the way people choose to behave?
then they are wrong, and to blame.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Only from these very few words above, you do not seem to be a very understanding or loving person.
You may be, but from the above you do not appear to be.
Ok so from the tone of this thread I am to assume that it had nothing at all to do with the Church telling his parents and friends and likely even the kid that if he does not see the things the way the chruch does then he has to beleive in Satan. And that the kid was just spontaniously depressed and there was nothing anyone could do or save this kid or help him out of his depression. Nothing at all could have been done he was going to do it anyway is that about right for the tone of this thread.