Stoning to death still occurs today!

[RebelWithoutACow]

The september 11th attacks where carried out by a small group of individuals brainwashed by a handful of morons. While your seeing red is understandable, going on a crusade against all Muslims is not only pointless, its playing right into their hands. When Bush announced the wars on afghanistan and iraq, OBL was probably jumping for joy, and when people such as yourself start pointing out the flaws in the islamic faith and claiming all muslims are barbaric, it furthers the problem.

As for all muslems feeling that way, do all the followers of any religion believe exactly the same things and act in the same ways? Of course not.

Have a look at this , and some of the other papers on that site. Blaming an entire group of people for the actions of a few is foolhardy, instead of looking for more examples of the bad things, try looking for examples of the good.

 

[Bells]

*Sigh*

Vienna, I was only using Christianity as an EXAMPLE. As I have stated again and again in this post, ALL religions commit atrocities. All I was trying to get across was that there is not just one religion to blame for what is wrong in the world or for committing barbaric acts.

And here is a link that might interest you. Seems that some Bush supporters who are right wingers are preaching what has been deplored in this thread. If this guy gets his way, there might be more reports on stonings in the US... that's of course if people are stupid enough to listen... Bush supporters that is... You see Vienna, Muslims aren't the only one's preaching the barbaric act of stoning people....

http://www.geocities.com/revmfrancis/

It is a waste of time to blame all on just a religion. It's racist and frankly simple minded. Governments are just to blame for atrocities as right wing gits who blindly follow what their religious leaders tell them. Not all Muslims follow Sharia law, just like not all Christians follow all that the Vatican preaches... but I guess that comes from being open minded. You on the other hand seem to have blinkers on and have set your hate sites on one group of people. Kind of like Hitler in Germany with his hatred of Jews and his stupid view that all that was wrong in his world was due to the Jews. Hatred breeds hatred Vienna. It has in the past and will continue to do so in the future. To blame all members of one faith is just hateful and racist.

And Vienna, not all Catholics approve or agree with what the church does. In fact, I'd guess that the majority are against the teachings of the church in regards to abortion, birth control and their views on homosexusality (to mention just a few). Just because the religion preaches one thing does not mean that all blindly follow. The images that were shown in the media of muslims dancing in the streets after 9/11 was for the sole reason of inciting anger in the west. The majority of all Muslim nations were disgusted with the events of 9/11 and as I'm sure you are aware, the majority of muslim leaders have stated that such acts as terrorism is not in the muslim teachings, but in the teachings of a few moronic individuals who have their own agenda.

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by Vienna
I see that a Byron California school system is requiring 7th Grade students to take courses in Islam. One thing I can be certain of is that the syllabus will not contain is the fact that no place in the Muslim world would courses on Christianity be allowed, let alone required as mandatory curriculum.

Such an absence of reason means that Islam will not have to destroy the West with jihad......

the West has become far too adept at destroying itself. [/B]

Wow, this is pretty interesting. It probably deserves to be its own thread. Would you rather create a thread on this instead? It could get a lot of replies and different viewpoints.

 

[Ghassan Kanafani]

Originally posted by Vienna
One thing I can be certain of is that the syllabus will not contain is the fact that no place in the Muslim world would courses on Christianity be allowed

That is because it is not true , but why should you have any clue of such things when all you preach is ignorant hatred that is based in copy/paste mechanics .

How about St.Joseph's university in Beirut , the Orthodox Christian University of Balamand in Lebanon ? How about Bir Zeit university or the Bethlehem university in Palestine ? How about the Catholic university of Parahiyangan and the Christian University of Duta Wacana or Univesitas Kristen in Indonesia ?

Don't you get tired of yourself ? Not only do Arabs and other Muslims engage in courses on Christianity , they have Christian university's .

Philosophic & religious tolerance is tradition in Islam , which is rather opposite of how western nations have treated those who were not like them , on religious , ideologic or even on biological base .

If the Islam was so intolerant in education Europe would not have known of their supposed Greeks and their philosophies .

Afterall the book-burning Jew-bashing witch-burning pagan-decapitating socalled "Christians" from Europe pretty much destroyed everything that had philosophical value in their hate for everything that wasnt retarded as them .

Pakman , out of curiocity ........ what Fiqh do you follow ?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani
Afterall the book-burning Jew-bashing witch-burning pagan-decapitating socalled "Christians" from Europe pretty much destroyed everything that had philosophical value in their hate for everything that wasnt retarded as them .
----------
M*W: This is xianity at its finest.

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani
Pakman , out of curiocity ........ what Fiqh do you follow ?

The Jafari Fiqh.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Vienna
You pick out SEVEN schools in the WORLD that supposed to represent Christianity, I checked their websites and found no courses on Christianity whatsoever. Why do they have Christian sounding names.
It's not important anyway, I could tell you that there are THOUSANDS of muslim schools in ENGLAND which promote Islam, and BANS anything which may represent CHRISTIANITY from the school.

And because I don't particularly like this take over (which it is), I get shot down in my country and on forum boards like this. Is it because I am in a minority who voices an opinion. Or is the silent majority just sitting back and letting this country becoming muslim.....who knows. Either way it is happening and no-one is going to stop it.

The muslim presence in America is not like the presence in England, muslim influence is taking over here at a fast rate of knots.
In about 10 years from now Americas best ally will be a muslim country, now that will be interesting!

M*W: On a different note... It has been said that the Monarchy fiercely hates Muslims since the "strange" and untimely death of Princess Di. Mind you, I haven't read the book written by Dodi's father, but the allegations were that Princess Di was pregnant with Dodi's child, and that was the reason for the lengthy time they spent (1 hour) in the ambulance was to do an abortion before taking her to the hospital. It was also stated that there was a "cover-up" by the Monarchy to that would the wreck, and that the Monarchy feared a pregnancy of Di's by Dodi would bring a child into the Royal Family that was half-Egyptian. What do the English people say about these allegations?

 

[Ghassan Kanafani]

Originally posted by Vienna
You pick out SEVEN schools in the WORLD that supposed to represent Christianity

What the hell are you talking about man ? You claim there is no Christian education in the Islamic world and i show you therwise . Have you problems understanding this ? Who speaks about any representation for Christianity ?

Also they are UNIVERSITIES not schools , I understand the difference is hard for you to grasp because you never been inside of either one of them in your entire life .

Ihecked their websites and found no courses on Christianity whatsoever.

That's because you'r an incompetent idiot who can't even properly operate google .

Why do they have Christian sounding names.

Such as "Catholic" , or "Orthodox Christian" ?

THOUSANDS of muslim schools in ENGLAND

I haven't shown you any schools , I have shown you universities

promote Islam, and BANS anything which may represent CHRISTIANITY from the school.

Oh no ...... it's amazing . WHO CARES ?

And because I don't particularly like this take over

Yes we know where all your pathetic arguments root in , save yourself the embaresment and go root racist slant at some football match , BYE !

I get shot down in my country and on forum boards like this

That's because your an idiot . Im sure you hate the fact that not everybody on your daily path of spam and stupidty is as retarded as you are .

In about 10 years from now Americas best ally will be a muslim country, now that will be interesting!

Not really Amerika has quite alot of Muslim allies unfortunatly , but again let's assume that you were born yesterday and just feel like crying .

Don't you have any self respect ?

 

[Ghassan Kanafani]

Originally posted by Vienna
Why don't you take a leaf out of pakmans book. He is the most respectable honest and polite muslim I have come across on these boards, and he is a credit to Islam.

From your perspective which is in complaint of religious matters , you are being an idiot once again . It reflects your system of value great though .

BTW Give me a link to a course in Christianity from your list of universities please, if you can.

Links are trolls-food and as you know I have no desire to provide information for your trollish needs .

Instead I have a better idea , why dont u send them a letter , call them or fax them with your moronic questions about their courses ?

Saint John of Damascus Faculty of Theology
The University of Balamand
Monastery of Balamand, PO Box 100, Tripoli, Lebanon
Tel: ++961 (0) 6 930 305/6/7 - Fax: ++961 (0) 6 930 304

Now let's see weither you got the point .

 

[Tiassa]

I'll take a swing at it:

Turkey comes to mind; while there are secular laws in place, the CIA World Fact Book lists the population as 99.8% Muslim. They have troops in Iraq right now.

But the larger issue is why these nations are expected to back the US.

On any given day, no. But when the US finally comes around to stand for Justice, yes.

Just as many Christians in the West stand on their integrity, so, too, do many Muslims around the world stand on theirs. Whether it was the US, China, or a tyrant in the middle of nowhere, Muslims won't lie to themselves the way we do in this country in order to take a certain side.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Vienna
Egypt has launched a crackdown on Christian missionaries.[/bNow why are Christian missionaries forbidden here, and why would these workers face countless risks, including death?

Would it be because these people are in Muslim countries?

If it is the law of the land then follow it. Muslim or not muslim. If in the USA or in the UK they pass a law,to not to preach Islam, people should follow it. There is nothing wrong in imposing a law. If you want to save the muslims then do it only where you can. Do you have a problem following a law?? If you do then don't go and preach Christianity in any muslim country. Same goes for Muslims, if UK passes a law not to preach Islam then simply Don't.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Vienna
Hello Bells

A Christian hater eh? Big deal

I wasn't comparing Islam with Christianity, but since you brought it up. When did you last hear of a Christian stoning?

When was the last Christian beheading?
When was the last time a Christian chopped off someones hands for stealing?
Where have you heard of a Christian preaching about his faith in a moslem country - and lived?? [/B]

Just out of curiousity;

How many Christian countries follows the Biblical Laws?

 

[Tiassa]

Depends on how its done

Lets say America goes to war with Iran, could you see Turkey or any other muslim country fighting with America, and killing muslims in Iran?

Depends entirely on why we're at war.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Vienna
Really............

I haven't forgotten about the 200,000 Christian refugees in East Timor, nor the 50,000 murdered in the Southern Philippines, nor the World Trade Centre, Lockerbie and the Pentagon.

What about the Saudis hanging a 15 year old boy for his Christian faith while their country is under the strategic protection of America and Britain.

I haven't forgotten thousands upon thousands of Moslem barbarians rioting in the streets of Britain's cities, demanding the murder of Salmon Rushdie, a British citizen, for authoring a book they didn't like.

And the Islamic genocide in the Sudan and the church burnings in Nigeria

Do you expect me to believe that the Taliban, and for that matter, the entire history of Islam, with its bloody debauchery and unspeakable oppression of human rights, which continues to this day, in one Islamic country after another, has nothing to do with Islam.

One faith is no worse than the other......yeah right

Really?

And I didn't forget the Kosovo's genocide against muslims

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0995/9509028d.html

Many dead by chemical and bilogical agents. I am sure you don't care about any of that.

Some more...........

http://www.hrw.org/summaries/s.bosnia962.html



I didn't forget the 1 millions Iraqi children died due to sanctions on Non-existant WMDS. Plus 10-15 thousand more dead just for the fun of it when USA and the Poddle UK attacked Iraq.

8-10 thousand dead in Afghanistan and the Massacare of Mazar-e-Sharif, where UK/USA soldiers stand aside and let the Afghan armies slaughter 1500 POWs. How could you forget that? ...........I get it, not imporant right?



Oh no! I didn't forget the the Indonasia.............


Released January 15, 2000
The Wisdom Fund, P. O. Box 2723, Arlington, VA 22202
Website: http://www.twf.org -- Press Contact: Enver Masud
Media Show Bias in Coverage of Violence in Indonesia
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The U.S. media's anti-Muslim bias shows once again in their reports on the violence in Indonesia, where calls of "jihad" receive widespread newspaper and television coverage, but the massacre and burning of dozens of Muslims by Christians -- the reason for the call to "jihad" -- gets little or no coverage.
Richard Lloyd Parry, Asia Correspondent for the Independent, reported on January 11, 2000 that, "Aid workers say they have found the bodies of large numbers of Muslims massacred and burnt by Christians in the ongoing violence in the Indonesian Spice Islands."

Mr. Parry reports, "A doctor with the aid team said he had seen a mosque in the village of Popilo in which bodies lay five deep. More bodies, including those of young children, were bulldozed into the ground near by. 'I think it was about 200 bodies,' he was quoted as saying. 'I saw some dried blood in the mosque, so I assume ... that the victims were slaughtered inside the mosque.'"

On January 5, 2000, Irwin Firdaus of the Associated Press had written, "Media reports in Jakarta said up to 10,000 people on Halmahera [in the Spice Islands] were seeking shelter in military barracks while waiting to be evacuated. The Indonesian Observer daily quoted local residents as saying most of those fleeing were Muslim, and that Christian militias had gone on a killing spree throughout the island."

Yet, as far as we can tell, this Christian killing spree was not covered by U.S. media. Instead U.S. media paid far greater attention to Muslims calling for "jihad" in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta.

They did not report why Muslims were calling for "jihad," nor the various meanings of jihad (or struggle), thereby, leaving the impression of a blood-thirsty Muslim majority out to kill Christians -- just because they are Christian.

The truth is considerably more complex, and neither Muslims nor Christians are blameless.

The 1000 plus islands comprising the Moluccas (or Maluku) in Indonesia, stretch from Halmahera in the north to Wetar off the north-eastern end of Timor. The largest of the islands, Halmahera and Seram, are the most undeveloped and underpopulated. The smallest, Ambon and the Bandas, are the most developed and populated.

The Moluccas -- the fabled Spice Islands -- to which Indians, Chinese, Arabs, and Europeans came in search of cloves, nutmeg, and mace, bore the brunt of the first European attempts to colonize Indonesia.

The Portuguese were the first to arrive in 1509, followed by the Dutch in 1599. By 1630 the Dutch were established in Ambon, and they had their headquarters in Jakarta.

After a brief occupation by the British, the Dutch returned in 1814, but encountered resistance. The leader of the rebellion, Pattimura, was captured and executed. He is regarded as one of Indonesia'a national heroes -- Ambon's university and airport are named after him.

When the Dutch left Indonesia after World War II, the mainly Christian population of Ambon in the Moluccas, proclaimed an independent Republic of the South Moluccas (RMS) rather than join with Indonesia.

In 1950 Indonesian troops occupied the islands, and the RMS fled to the jungles of Seram. From there about 12,000 were taken to the Netherlands by the Dutch government. And from the Netherlands they continue their resistance to Indonesian rule. Many have returned to retire or do business.

The violence in the Moluccas has come amid increasing religious tensions, fueled in part by Muslim migration to the islands, which have long had a Christian majority descended from its former Dutch rulers, and converts to Christianity.

Adding to the religious tensions is the prospect of wealth for some.

According to AFP (January 11, 2000), Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid said that the most recent bloody Muslim-Christian battles on Halmahera island in North Maluku, which have left hundreds killed, were "perpetrated by someone who wants to be the governor of the province," as well as "the prospect of a gold mine" in the area.

Others, rumored to be after the oil on Seram, may be fueling the violence which has taken about 2,000 lives in the past year.

["Audi Wuisan, the coordinator of the crisis center of the Indonesian Council of Churches, . . . said on January 13, copies of an open letter had circulated in West Nusatenggara province, of which Lombok is part, telling Christians there to condemn Christians in Maluku for slaughtering 3,000 Muslims." -- "Angry Indonesian Mob Sets Churches on Fire over Slaughter of Muslims," AFP, January 17, 2000]

["A Muslim mob set fire today to at least eight churches on the Indonesian tourist island of Lombok and battled police trying to stop the spread of religious violence that has claimed more than 2,000 lives. . . . Fighting between Christians and Muslims first broke out a year ago on Ambon Island and quickly spread to other islands in Maluku and North Maluku provinces, . . . On Saturday, the Indonesian Council of Ulamas, a powerful group of Islamic leaders, said it supported calls for a holy war to protect Muslims from any further violence. But President Abdurrahman Wahid, a Muslim who advocates religious tolerance, angrily rejected such plans." -- Ali Kotarumalos, "Indonesian Religious Violence Grows," AP, January 17, 2000. Note: The AP version of the same incident, does not tell the whole story. It does not mention the slaughter of 3000 Muslims, reported by AFP. It does mention "2000 lives" claimed by violence, but an American reader is unlikely to read this as mostly Muslims killed by Christians.]

[On January 24, 2000, about 200 hospital staff, 700 patients and visitors were taken hostage in Thailand by the Christian fundamentalist God's Army. On January 25, an AP headline read, "Myanmar Hostage Takers Were Polite." Compare news coverage with that of Muslims.]


Copyright © 1999 The Wisdom Fund - All Rights Reserved. Provided that it is not edited, and author name, organization, and web address (http://www.twf.org) are included, this article may be printed in newspapers and magazines, and e-mailed to others.

There are always two sides of any picutre. You view what is convinient to you, what ever benfits your desires is what you see in that picture. It is really simple, if you want to look at the good side of anything you can find a way and vice versa.


Please don't even start with Crusade's BS.

 

[Bells]

Originally posted by Vienna
My last post on this subject is above

I see that this is obviously not your last post on this subject. Oh and by the way Vienna, you remember how you accused me of having brought up the Christian argument as an example? Here let me remind you of it...

Originally posted by Vienna

I'd like to hear some answers from you, and remember, I didn't bring Christianity up - you did!

Errrm just a gentle little reminder Vienna, read your first post on this thread And I believe that those questions you asked were answered on more than one occasion. I do apologise that they weren't what you wanted to hear. Is that why you kept asking them repeatedly? Or is it because you wish to get your thread count up? Hmmmm who knows... and frankly who cares..

And Markx, good luck in trying to show anything in this thread. It's as if some have blinkers on and just can't see left or right. All they see is what they wish to see... lol..

And on a final note...

Originally posted by Vienna
The only road to a peaceful world is to get rid of religion.

I'd say that the only road to a peaceful world would be to get rid of racists. Especially one's who can only spout dribble by pointing the finger in an attempt to incite further hatred. RebelWithoutACow was right Vienna, your hate for groups of people of certain religious belief is only proving to terrorist organisations their notions that the people of the West are attempting to be rid of Islam. Well done, you're proving to be OBL's greatest ally. You really should pat yourself on your back.

 

[Tiassa]

Vienna

If your government was dishonestly killing innocent people, would you take up arms and participate?

 

[Bells]

Re: Re: Vienna

Originally posted by Vienna
Hypothetical question, this would be easier to answer if it wasn't so grey, can you be more specific?
Can you give an example where my government would be in this kind of situation and dishonestly killing innocent people?

I guess you kind of missed the whole Iraq thing? From the sanctions to the war...

 

[Tiassa]

Examples

Vienna

Can you give an example where my government would be in this kind of situation and dishonestly killing innocent people?

Sure. Just as soon as you can give me an example of a good reason why the US would be invading Iran.

In the meantime, there's always reasons. Just ask North America's indigenous tribes. The US government has conducted biological warfare in pursuit of genocide on the American continent.

Okay, so there's an example for you.

How about anti-drug actions taken in Central and South America, where the US government is party to the killing of innocent people, including children, as collateral damage in defoliating illicit crops?

So ... there's another.

On the other hand, if NK nukes Japan, for instance, certain Muslim nations would definitely pitch in. To what degree is its own question, but I also do not see you considering what we might phrase the "Pakistani question".

What happens if Pakistan throws its support behind an American action in NK or Iran, and the fundamentalists revolt and secure a nuclear weapon? Some days we have to pardon other governments if they tend to housekeeping instead of foreign entailments.

 

[Jenyar]

If I ever decide not to fight it would be down to personal and humane morals, not because of the morals of religion. Religious morals are far from perfect.

Human morals are far from perfect. As you are aware, religious morals does not always exclude the possibility of war, but they do have much to say on the subject of whose side you are fighting on. And "personal and humane" morals have everything to do with it.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Vienna
Really????..two sides.....and a good side???

Please apply your logic in relation to the horror of the World Trade Center.

Really?? good side or the other side? and according to who?



There goes the ranting about WTC again..................it is pathetic to relate WTC with Islam. Only you can do that.