Stoning to death still occurs today!

[Vienna]

Are we expected to believe that Islam is a peaceable, tolerant and just religion, while stoning to death is still happening today in Moslem countries.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1435760.stm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/20/1029114094333.html

http://www.rawa.org/stoned.htm

http://www.africaonline.com/site/Articles/1,3,53548.jsp

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/07/07/stories/2002070702591400.htm

http://www.wpibriefing.com/14ston.htm

 

[Tiassa]

What are the authentic democracies in the world?

So ... which are the authentic democracies in the world?

Did the world begin magically on September 11, 2001? I mean, theoretically it's possible.

Or, we might simply ask, As compared to what?

 

[kajolishot]

Very sad indeed.

But it is immature to blame this on the faith. Blame the right-wing fanatic judical judges & leaders.

Human rights organisations in Pakistan have been urging the successive governments to tone down some of the draconian provisions of the blasphemy law but no regime has touched it for fear of incurring the wrath of the powerful right-wing groups.

Let this be a warning to those x-ians who want to godify America.

But, then again, comparing islam to the western 'democracies' is similarly comparing apples with bananas.

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by Vienna
Are we expected to believe that Islam is a peaceable, tolerant and just religion, while stoning to death is still happening today in Moslem countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1320589.stm

Gosh, what a horrible death. Anyway, no where in the link did I find that Islam said to do that. All it said was that it was done my "Palestian militants." Last time I checked, these people hate Israeli's.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1435760.stm

The women was responsible for murdering her husband. She also made a pornographic film with another man. This goes strongly against Islam.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/20/1029114094333.html

This lady had a child before she was married. Something else which also goes against Islam.

http://www.rawa.org/stoned.htm

This lady should have well been aware of what she was doing. She had a husband, yet she ran off with another man to have sex. This goes against Islam also.

http://www.africaonline.com/site/Articles/1,3,53548.jsp

This guy raped a 9-year old girl.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/07/07/stories/2002070702591400.htm

Another rape scene.

http://www.wpibriefing.com/14ston.htm

She was accused of playing in pornographic films and having sexual relationships outside marriage. She also killed her husband.

------------------------------------------------------

Notice that all of these stoning events happened for a reason. Notice they all had to do with rape or sex or killing someone. The only exception is the first one where the two Israeli boys were killed.

Anyway, Islam strongly forbids against rape, wedlock(sex before marriage), and murdering. The people should have well been aware of the consequences. Also, it is common sense not to do those type of stuff.

Also, you seem to be blaming this on Islam. You must acknowledge the actions that the people did to deserve this and the people who said to do the stoning. I don't agree with stoning just like I don't agree with the electric chair.

Plus, these Muslim countries do not have the same democracy of Western culture. They are not as developed as America is. However, I do fail to see an authentic democracy in the world.

 

[Bells]

There is not a single Moslem country in the world that is an authentic democracy and where Christians are not persecuted.

You mean there is an authentic democracy somewhere out there? Shock...

And can someone tell me where there is a single so called "christian" country where people of other faiths are not persecuted? Oh wait... that's probably in the country that has an authentic democracy right?... hmmm

Are we are still expected to suspend our powers of reason and pretend that Islam is a peaceful, tolerant and just religion??

As opposed to what? Oh you mean Christianity? Yes, Christianity is tolerant and just and peaceful.

Yes I'm sure that homosexuals for example would agree with you that Christians (especially the Catholics) are tolerant, just and peaceful. And I'm sure that Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and all other non-christian faiths would agree with you there. Hey why not look at some of the Christian religions out there who are so right wing that they don't even know where the left hand side is. You know the ones who incite their members to shoot people who work at abortion clinics and then tell them they've done God's work once they've murdered the doctors, nurses and other abortion clinic staff? Is that any different to stoning? Twits exist in ALL religious faiths... One faith is no worse than the other.

 

[okinrus]

The women was responsible for murdering her husband. She also made a pornographic film with another man. This goes strongly against Islam.

It doesn't matter whether it is against Islam or not. The punishment does not correspond with the crime.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

Actually...

I mused about this in my blog a month ago. Here's the article:

<I><U>In Other News....</I></U>

I know that traveling to foreign countries can be a unique experience that anyone can enjoy. However, going to foreign countries and getting <A HREF="http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3594002">your penis stolen</A> is a different story.

So I decided that today's article should be about various crimes that are committed against tourists. You would be shocked to know that people in other countries really don't like Americans, or Japanese people for that matter. All of these articles are real.

<A HREF="http://www.kuam.com/news/story.asp?headline=6985">Teenage tourist killed by lightning in Tumon</A>

<A HREF="http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/Art/0717/news4.php">Tourist Killed In Nightclub (Kicked to death)</A>

<A HREF="http://iafrica.com/news/sa/45963.htm">Tourist Stoned To Death</A>

<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/731981.stm">Tourist Stoned To Death, Again</A>

<A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,405795,00.html">Tourist Stoned To Death by Teenagers, So the Local Villagers Burn the Teenagers</A>

<A HREF="http://www.heraldonline.com/24hour/world/story/1008861p-7083289c.html">Female Tourist ALMOST Stoned To Death</A>

It appears to me that I should avoid countries with lots of rocks in them.

 

[Bells]

Do you expect me to believe that the Taliban, and for that matter, the entire history of Islam, with its bloody debauchery and unspeakable oppression of human rights, which continues to this day, in one Islamic country after another, has nothing to do with Islam.

You really should read about Christian history one day. They were just as bad if not worse. And as for the unspeakable of oppression of human rights? Were you aware that the US took twenty six years to ratify the Civil and Political Rights Covenant, forty years for the Genocide Convention and twenty-eight for the Convention against racial discrimination? Ask any African-American about oppression and they will tell you about the police beatings, shootings and harrassment that they endure. And that is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to human rights abuse in the US and also in other Western "Christian" states.

Even better still, ask the every day, normal, run of the mill people of Iraq about the sanctions imposed on them by the great democracies of the world. Saddam Hussein was a tyrant to say the least, but isn't the Christian West just as bad for the pain they have caused the innocent Muslims of Iraq? Or ask the Muslims of Kosovo of the pain they suffered at the hands of the Christians when they were massacred and slaughtered and forced to leave their homes, all because they were of the Muslim faith. What about the refugee crisis in Australia? The high (and I mean 99%) of all refugees in the so called refugee detention centres are muslim. They are closed off in what can only be described as a concentration like detention centre where they are made to endure severe hardships. Some end up throwing themselves into the razor wire that surrounds the camps in a bid to make the world understand the horrors that exist in those camps. Yes, Christians are peaceful and just. You tell that to the little children who are muslim and are forced to reside in conditions that I personally would not want to my dog in. They are forced to stay there for a number of years as the Australian Government decides whether they are refugees or not.

The list is long and frankly disgusting. No one side is innocent in regards to religious persecution. Some just get more media coverage than others.

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by Vienna
Hello Bells

A Christian hater eh? Big deal

I wasn't comparing Islam with Christianity, but since you brought it up. When did you last hear of a Christian stoning?
When was the last Christian beheading?
When was the last time a Christian chopped off someones hands for stealing?
Where have you heard of a Christian preaching about his faith in a moslem country - and lived??

Let's not turn this into a Christian vs. Islam thread. So all I'll say is that Christians do not follow Shariah Law.

However, there are many Christians who have gone preaching in a Muslim country and come back alive.

Originally posted by okinrus
It doesn't matter whether it is against Islam or not. The punishment does not correspond with the crime.

The law of the country is Shariah Law. Whether or not it goes against Islam, it goes against the country's law. The citizen may not like it, but he or she should be aware of the consequences.

 

[Davearchy]

too bad it isn't legal in the US, i could think of many worthy candidates. I nominate Bush for official stone throwing target

 

[Bells]

Did I miss a "Christian Crusade"???, when did this massacre occur in the name of Christianity?

Errr Vienna, you must have missed all the massacres that occured in Yugoslavia in the 1990's. And I wasn't discussing a Christian crusade, I was only pointing out that Christians, like ALL faiths are just as capable of committing atrocities. For example, look at Ireland.

As to your list of questions? Read some history books.

A Christian hater eh? Big deal

No my dear Vienna, I happen to be a catholic and I dont hate Christians nor do I hate other faiths. What I do hate are racist prats.

If it's so horrid in Australia and you don't like it there....go back, its simple.

Go back to where exactly? To countries ravaged by wars? To places where they aren't safe in their own homes due to the bombs that keep falling down?

All I am saying Vienna is that you can't blame all that is wrong on one denomination. All are equally at fault. Violence is barbaric, no matter what religion you happen to follow.

My my your so hard done by. You say your little children are living in a place not fit for dogs because of the Australian government. That is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard for a long time.

You should come out here and have a look for yourself. Australia has been criticised to the point of embarrassment by the United Nations and by human rights organisations for its treatment of refugees. Yes Vienna, I guess it is a load of bullshit. Normal and rational people in Australia look at detention centres and think the same thing... total and utter bullshit.

And Pakman, I agree with you totally. The discussion of who's better between Christians and Muslims is a debate that's raged for centuries and will continue to rage for centuries as long as there are those among us who have racist tendencies.

I guess that once people start to look at the whole picture and not just at one quarter of it, then maybe there will be some understanding and deliberation. Any form of legally sanctioned violence is vile, and that includes stoning as well as the death penalty.

 

[Tiassa]

Vienna

Would you prefer if I did not use the word "authentic", seen as it is the only argument you have with the above?

Actually, if you're only up to undertaking a single issue, I'd prefer it be: As compared to what?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Davearchy
too bad it isn't legal in the US, i could think of many worthy candidates. I nominate Bush for official stone throwing target

You know, up to now I haven't said anything about bashing our President, but I'm gonna say it now. I've known George since we we were in high school, while he was Govenor of Texas, and his parents live near me now. So don't be surprised when you see the special agents coming. Idaho is notorious for anti-American terrorists like you.

 

[RebelWithoutACow]

You are quite obviously a fanatical imbecile Vienna, regardless of how you may view yourself. Just because the christians dont stone people doesnt make them innocent. Christian charities in africa still blackmail the people there, offering them food, medicine and education on the condition that they attend christian schools and adopt the faith. Religious blackmail like this is just as abhorent in its own way as stoning, neither is excused, and the stonings that shock you so much are carried out by people like you, who let their religious beliefs overwhelm any smattering of common sense or decency they may have. While I myself don't beleive in any of the gods worshipped on this rock, I DO believe that if there is some sort of greater power out there those responsible for the stonings, and gormless twats like yourself, will be the ones who fail to pass any sort of judgement that may be passed on us when we die. Could any compassionate deity truly approve of the sort of ignorant, racist, moronic tripe you spew so devoutly at people? I think not! Have fun in hell

ps: Medicine woman - You REALLY went to school with GWB? Just outta curiousty, is he really as slow as he comes across, or is that just a cunning ruse to lull us into a false sense of security?

pps: And as so often seems to happen, bad things can bring about good! Without stoning we wouldnt have the V.Morrison song "And It Stoned Me"!!

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Vienna
Australia isn't Nazi Germany y'know, you talk bollox. If it's so horrible in the detention centers of Australia why the hell did they go there in the first place...

Is it me or have I heard that line before? Sounds like Germany in the early 1940s.

You say your little children are living in a place not fit for dogs because of the Australian government. That is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard for a long time.

Indeed?

"Placing a handful of unaccompanied children seeking asylum in foster care is a good gesture, but hundreds more are still in remote desert detention centers that lack ventilation and basic facilities," said Rachael Reilly, Refugee Policy Director at Human Rights Watch. "All of these children should be immediately released from detention and adequately cared for."
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/01/australia.htm

"Human Rights Watch's evidence shows that the Australian Defence Forces violated the rights of asylum seekers on board boats intercepted in October 2001. They detained the single men under inhumane conditions, beat several of them with batons and used other unnecessary force against vulnerable refugee families."
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/12/australia1210.htm

"Amnesty International is particularly concerned that this action took place when a hunger strike was already occurring at Woomera. The break out action has no doubt further inflamed an already tense situation."
http://www.amnesty.org.au/airesources/press-02-07-03.html

If it's so horrid in Australia and you don't like it there....go back, its simple.

Because they're not allowed to:

"It is important to remember that Australia is the only Western country that has a mandatory detention system whereby all those who arrive undocumented are detained until they are granted refugee status or are removed." - http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/report04.html

It's best to have some understanding of what you are talking about before you commit ink to paper (even if it's electronic).

~Raithere

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by Vienna
Did I miss a "Christian Crusade"???, when did this massacre occur in the name of Christianity?

The First Crusade was done to reclaim Jersulem from the Muslims. Upon winning, the Christians slaughtered the Muslims. The streets were covered with blood. But when the Second Crusade happened, the Christians were spared. They could also live in the city and go in and out.

I'm not saying that Christians were evil and Muslims were good. It depends on the person himself regardless of religion.

Originally posted by Vienna
Really??.....Like who?????????

Although we do hear of Christian people getting attacked, it does not mean that it happens to every single Christian that goes there. If that was the case, why do many Christians still go there? If every Christian went there and died, then whoever went there would just be commiting suicide.

Also, if you want, I can email some Christian aid groups and get information asking about whether they do come back alive or not.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Vienna
Are we expected to believe that Islam is a peaceable, tolerant and just religion, while stoning to death is still happening today in Moslem countries.

There is not a single Moslem country in the world that is an authentic democracy and where Christians are not persecuted.

How about Syria, Lebanon, Malaysia, Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco...etc..you pathetic hater, read your own bible FIRST:

Stoning in the Bible :

Punishment for sexual misconduct

Deuteronomy 22:13-29: ....'you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones..'

John 8: 1-11 : ''.. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such...''

Stoning for preaching a different religion: DEATH PENALTY FOR THOSE WHO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION IN CHRISTIANITY

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, `Let us go and serve other gods,' which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him; but you shall kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.


Deuteronomy 17:1-7: ''.....and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones...''

Stoning for blasphemy

Leviticus 24:10-16 ''...Bring out of the camp him who cursed; and let all who heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And say to the people of Israel, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. He who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him..''

Stoning for cursing God and the King

1 Kings 21:1-16 '' ...You have cursed God and the king.' Then take him out, and stone him to death..''

Stoning for giving children to Molech

Leviticus 20:1-5: ''..the people of the land shall stone him with stones..''

Stoning for being a medium or a wizard

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

Stoning for breaking the Sabbath

Numbers 15:32-36 ''....The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp..."

Stoning for stubborn and rebellious sons

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ''....Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear''

Stoning for stealing

Joshua 7:20-26 ''...Why did you bring trouble on us? The LORD brings trouble on you today." And all Israel stoned him with stones; they burned them with fire, and stoned them with stones.''

PATHETIC, EVEN ANIMALS ARE STONNED IN THE BIBLE !!

Stoning of goring animals :

Exodus 21:28-32 ''....the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death...''

Stoning for touching Mount Sinai

Exodus 19:10-13 ''...whoever touches the mountain shall be put to death; no hand shall touch him, but he shall be stoned or shot; whether beast or man, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain."

Hebrews 12:20-22 For they could not endure the order that was given, "If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned."

Stoning of the prophets

2 Chronicles 24:17-22 ''....Why do you transgress the commandments of the LORD, so that you cannot prosper? Because you have forsaken the LORD, he has forsaken you.'" But they conspired against him, and by command of the king they stoned him with stones in the court of the house of the LORD''

Stoning by congregation of Israel

1 Kings 12:15-19 ''...Then King Rehobo'am sent Ador'am, who was taskmaster over the forced labor, and all Israel stoned him to death with stones...''

AND MANY MORE VERSES ABOUT STONNING IN THE 'PEACEFUL' BIBLE.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Christian terrorism make christians PROUD:

www.armyofgod.com

 

[RebelWithoutACow]

Why are you so obsessed with those particular acts? You only have to look at the U.S. to see attrocities carried out in the name of Christianity. How many blacks have been killed in the U.S. during the last ten years by christian racists claiming they are inferior, stealing the jobs of whites etc etc? The fact that these acts are not ratified by the church hierocracy does not change the fact that they are inspired by the christian faith, and in many cases the sermons of rogue preachers.

The acts you list are atrocious indeed, but at least in Islam they are being carried out as penalties for breach of some law, however poor an excuse you may find that to be.

A quick look at the forums for topics you have started shows them to be almost exclusively anti-islam, are you on some sort of crusade to increase hatred against that religion?

As so many others have pointed out in this thread and others, very few, if any, religions are free of guilt when it comes to atrocities. Rather than picking on one religion, why not try to fix the problems within the faith you follow? It would be more productive and less likely to increase the hatred in the world, which we already have more than enough of.

 

[RebelWithoutACow]

Originally posted by Vienna
Maybe not, but I am sick of hearing muslims glorifying their barbaric religion. They hate Christian countries yet flee to them. They commit atrocities such as the World Trade Center and muslims are jumping for joy in schools and workplaces all over England, they celebrate it. We are not violent they claim, yeah right!

Forgive me if I don't feel to happy about it

And how many westerners where jumping for joy when the bombs fell on Iraq? Not as many as the Bush administration would have liked, no doubt, but still to many.

The endless cycle of revenge....with both sides claiming justice is on their side, and the blessings of their particular gods are with them....there is no right side these things, and I suspect those who are truly behind it are not particularly religious. As with so many of the "religious" wars ( or terrorism if you prefer ), religion is simply the easiest means these people have of getting others to fight and die for them.