Status of sciforums

Coming from a vBulletin community that's huge and has a much larger active membership (~9000 unique users post a month, usually ~400 on at any given time, and PLENTY of idiots/trouble makers), I can say that I know where you're coming from.

I've not been here very long, but my opinion is that you need a more active staff of moderators keeping an eye on things (but not being Nazi mods). You all should be checking IPs to identify alter egos that are being used to create trouble and don't be afraid to ban people (even if only temporarily) that take the openness of the forums for granted.

Take your best established moderators and make them supermods, make a few trusted posters mods in a forum or two and lay out the guidelines for them to follow and make sure the posters know the rules (yay stickies!).

It's not that hard to keep a balance while keeping things interesting if you put the effort into it.

I'll let you know how my stint as a mod goes at my home board, then I'll apply here. ;)
 
First I would like to thank wet1 for the compliment...

Now, Hans...I like what you posted. I was in another forum for a while and dropped out because it was a very closeknit group and new members could not break in as a family no matter what you have to say. The site is funded by big bucks including paid mederators and so they are happy...

We are aware of our sites ups and downs and as long as serious minded members new or old engage in, we should be fine. Sometimes we all go through phases that keeps us busy on other things, so the forum posting can slow down. The truth is we are doing better than we did during the beginning days of exosci. At that time it took 3 days to get a reply on my posts.

I hope this slow phase will pass. We have some very well qualified members in this forum in respective topics and hope more will join due to the fact that now this forum shows up more and more in Google.

Oh, I could not help but notice about Hans analysis and wonder if this same structure applies to businesses - like when business starts verses gets sucessful - the founders go to sleep and the business blows up....etc...( I have seen similar results at several businesses in US)

Thank you Hans...I could use this idea next time I deal with my client's business problems....
 
I see what your talking about, Tyler.

Personally, I've also seen a sort of "declination of standards" as you've pointed out. Way more one liners than there were since a year ago when I first signed up. I've seen so many people come here and erode our forums into something seemingly ugly. Different from the beautiful thing it once was a year ago.

Reminds me of one of my favourite Fishing/camping areas. When I was 10 onward, me and my dad, and maybe a few of his friends would drive out near drumheller, to this specific area by the river. It was like a duggout in dense foliage, with just enough room to set up a couple of tents, chairs and rods. This was such a nice place that brought me countless good memories. You can't really beat the scenery that a river snaking through the badlands has to offer. Anyways, during a few years up to the present (4 - 6?) I really noticed a change. The placed was built on a sort of packed sandy loam built from prehistoric sediment (hard to explain). The duggout basically eroded to the point where you couldn't walk without partially falling into the river (let alone camp unless you like 45 degree angles).

The story doesn't end sadly, though. We didn't give up on that area. There was still alot more the place had to offer. We later found an even more beautiful camp/fishing place. An river island with even better fishing and nicer scenery.

I think that if we all try to change for the better, Sciforums can become an even nicer place than it was a year ago. This includes cutting down on one liners, "gangs" and flames. I know that I've kinda stumbled lately, posting stupid and aimless crap like "which is better - Beaver or Eagle". I'll stop that, and I'll try to completely stop flaming people -- Which I rarely do anyways. It's up to the moderators to remind Sciforums members that this is a place of Science, not crap.


BTW, Tyler, I've noticed that you posted a couple quotes that might be considered "insulting" to some in your sig. Nobodies perfect, TS, or anyone, but how would that make you more right? You've contributed alot of good to this forum, but maybe you could a bit more by removing that part of your signature?
 
I have noticed quite a few good suggestions. comments, and thoughts that have been put in this thread. I would like to thank all that have put serious consideration into it. I think there is some valuable info here.

One of the thoughts that seem to be repeating itself is that it is up to the moderators to lead. Ok. I have no problem with that. I will do what I can to assist the site. I do not live on this site always. I will need the assistance of other moderators in this. I certainly can be more vigilant.

I do not think that Free Thoughts is a place to moderate heavily and that this one forum should deserve a light hand. That it is the one place where there is no problem with one liners and quips. In other forums, I see no problem with the occasional one liner and quip especially if it points to or demonstrates a point.

I would like to hear more from the members as to how they feel, what they think, or what they think appropriate to the topic. I think what I am saying is that I would like to get a feel from the quorum.
 
Interesting that some of our more interesting members chose to leave after that whole "Waaah! People are mean and insulting!" schtick. Gee I wonder why. :rolleyes:

I mean, this sucks. No tony1, no Squid V, Physics and Math is dead or devolves into yet another attempt to disprove relativity, religion is basically us athiest sitting around talking about athiesm, philosophy is dead, (I'll start a thread tomorrow to liven things up), ethics is dead, no interesting debates.....

Only politics has interesting flamewars.
 
well i offered to become a mod for ethics for dave

actully i bugged him for a while about it:p
 
I have moderated forums. Its tempting to use a heavy hand in the name of decency and the good of the forum, and at times it can be neccessary, but generally its best to go easy. Some posts will be offensive to some, just like you may see a turd in the prettiest of meadows. It takes spices (and fertilizer, hehehe) to make life interesting. When I see a troll, I usually ignore them, sometimes I try to argue, after all, most of us have done SOME trolling, but if they wont talk sense, I ignore them. Also, never be afraid to bring a thread back to topic, even if the post you answer is many posts up the thread.

A couple of items of good moderator's practice I have found out (some of it the hard way, heheh):

- Never just delete threads and posts, it leads to aggression. If a thread goes haywire, lock it. If a post is unacceptable, dont delete it, X out the offending part and add a notice of what you did and why. But surprisingly often, simply locking a bad thread will end the fight.

- If a thread branches off in two discussions, move the new subject to an new thread.

- If a thread is started in the wrong forum, move it, leaving a post thet points to the new location.

- Dont ever make it public if somebody is banned; send them a private mail. And if they reappear under a new name, give them one more chance; some people will actually take a lesson.

- Dont take sides; if two members get into a brawl, lock or censor the thread, then tell them both to cut it out, one may seem culpable, but it takes two to fight.


Well ---- thanks for listening, hehehe :cool:

Hans
 
Originally posted by Avatar
you're quite new here Agent@5
Tyler was speaking of what it was like, befor you came
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well.. then... my opinion is based on the forums of what i know now.... And some things are a little stail, but you know, you get that.

as for people with arrogant perspectives... you have to admit, they add a little colour to the place... as bitter sweet as that is.
 
The only thing I am against is users with multiple ID's. It leads to irresponsible posts. Other than that I prefer anarchy. If a poster decideds to be a jerk or troll, others will think less of the person.
 
Originally posted by Emfuser
Take your best established moderators and make them supermods, make a few trusted posters mods in a forum or two and lay out the guidelines for them to follow and make sure the posters know the rules (yay stickies!).
Click to expand...

Man that sounds awefully a lot like another very messy board I know.... You need supermods only when the forum becomes too large for the admin to handle. We don't need any sort of hierarchies, forum politics, or popularity contests. Your suggestion is quite bad in my opinion. We don't need sciforums to emulate another forum which isn't really that great except it almost has monopoly. Sciforums should adapt policies best suited for sciforums NOT to emulate another forum. This forum is a lot smaller and has higher percentage of intelligent people.

The best approach is to make sciforums a better place is not to copy another forum but to take the following approach.

1. Discover the problems or areas that need improvement.
2. Identify a set of solutions.
3. Experiment with the solution.
4. Review to see if it improves any or back to the drawing board.

It sounds common sense, but it is the standard approach especially in successful companies.

Copying from another forum is totally unnecessary. Other forums should copy THIS ONE.
 
yeh, since i first signed up i have noticed change in postings too. I am against multiple handles, i know of 2 that i am certain that are the same person. Name and shame is what i say.
i stumbled on sciforums purely by accident and the forums i was with then were going down hill due to technical difficulties and now they are full of flaming - a once good forum gone to waste, it is so bad i wont even go to it now. dont let sciforums get that bad. Alot of pointless threads too have appeared: how big is your knob? . i believe such threads should be either locked or deleted.
 
Originally posted by Adam
First of all, welcome back.

Second... Yeah, it's been like that lately. I've been prowling news sites more to post interesting stories, hoping it will pick up again.

That reminds me, time to check the nas stes...
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Yes, it has Adam, hasn't it? Like calling relative newcomers 'an idiot' because you do not like their POV. Insulting behaviour begets insulting behaviour.
 
Okay, well, I read the first few posts but realized that I had to get to posting my own opinion as a very influential moderator:D (that's a joke).

My first point to make-foxiedoggie mentioned that he was me. I asked congratulations to compare our two IP's, and he found that they were different, so he can vouch for me if any of you think that the latest sciforums moron is in fact me.

My second point: the sciforums are constantly remaking themselves, going into slumps and rebounding. This website is like it's own organism. Sometimes it's sick, and boring, and other times you feel that every second you don't spend online is sheer torture (I speak for myself, here).

In regards to the second point, I have to say that sometimes this place will suck, and other times, it will be great, and awesome, and awe-inspiring. If you don't like it, leave, and come back a few weeks or months later, and you will return and find a very interesting place. I say this because I did this exactly, I joined in april of 2001 I think, but only really started posting in september. In between those times I was not here because I felt that this place didn't offer that much to me.

Similar points have been made by two of the fellow sciforumers that I brought here (or...converted:D). Both Cactus Jack and Oedipus feel that this place is now boring, so they're both gone. The answer to this perplexing question is to leave, and come back. Or don't come back at all.
 
A very brief newbie view.....

In the short time I have been reading and posting on sciforums I have seen creativity, insight, wisdom, knowledge, and the amazing saving of a life.

All else pales in comparison.

Life is a messy thing. The best always rise above the rest. It is seen in sciforums.
 
I think this is a sticky situation. Everyone is different. We will always have different opinions and standards. Not everyone will be satisfied in the end. So how does one exactly decide what is vulgar, or stupid-silly?

By the way, where's the life-saving thread? I'd like to see it. :)
 
The search for intelligent life on planet earth continues....

Originally posted by Joeman

The best approach to make sciforums a better place is to take the following approach:

1. Discover a troll
2. Identify a troll
3. Experiment with the final solution.
4. Implement the final solution
5. Now you got Better Homes & Gardens!
Click to expand...

Just wanna say I guess I fall into the catagory of the ones who want to have fun & don't take the meanness of the world that seriously. & Yes I started a (meaningless) thread. I only started one thread ever. & it is meaningless. But it is quite possible a thread can 'appear' to be meaningless but to the astute observer have great meaning. It is also quite possible that a meaningless thread can develop meaning as it transpires. my thread "Crap will be tolerated" could have been great but we will never know.
since a mod couldn't show proper self control & kept insinuating himself into the proceedings thereby breaking the spell of elusive
philosophical bliss I was creating. This 'intrusion' was the old standard ploy whereby the mod tells the posters 'not' to post there in a "VERY" subtle way. How would you like a mod to break into your thread & say: "This thread is going nowhere" You could RUIN every thread that way! congratulations, you accomplished something. wish it were something good, however.:eek:
 
Summer in the Northern Hemisphere means all manner of students are on school break and looking for some release from scholastic stress. Yes, Free Thoughts and portions of other fora have threads less staid then usual, threads that might evoke concern amongst regulars that the place is going "down the tubes".

I agree with others who take the long view that such threads are a normal part of an evolving board--sometimes noisy, sometimes quiet, sometimes high-brow, sometimes infantile--and are not necessarily indicative of impending doom.

In fact, the board can absorb quite a few such posting types/behaviors and still maintain its Porferific character. What that character cannot afford is the loss of significant numbers from the board's senior membership--those who remember "how it used to be" and leave because it just isn't the same.

The senior membership is, in my mind, even more responsible for maintaining the character of the board than is the moderating staff. The types of threads that dominate a board are much more a reflection of the quality and character of the membership than of the moderating staff, since moderators don't post the majority of threads, nor do the make most of the posts to them.

In the same way that "you are what you eat", the membership itself makes the board what it bleats.

The onus should be on the senior membership to maintain a philosophy of posting that leaves little doubt in the minds of newer members and visitors that, other than in Free Thoughts, the interjection of inane, off-topic tripe is not appreciated.

That being said, there should still be plenty of room for good-natured jockularity, expression of honest, principled dissention, and the occasional well-crafted insult.

Use it as you wish it to be or lose it to others with their own ideas for it.
 
Sorry for not having replied all day, work from 10-8. Anyway...


MRC - excellent posts and I'm glad to have heardy our insight.

Elbaz - Nelson and I had a discussion about this. He started off saying that I was trying to insult him. I'm not going to deny that I found Nelson to be a hopeless idiot, but all I did was quote him. He said what I quoted and when I asked him if he had thought it over and wished to retract his statement he told me that he still stood firm by it and believed it. If he still believes it then it's not an insult to him, unless he finds his own beliefs being shown to him insulting. Had Nelson said he made a mistake or that's not what he meant I would have deleted it. If you truly wish me to and think it is offensive, I will do the same.

Xev - I don't really find myself too fond of flamewars unless the insult is intelligently made. Like something out of a George Carlin book.


Blue - Site Feedback section.

Mr. G - I don't know if I can be considered a senior member; I've not been here nearly as long as the majority of the members I look up to and respect and the early part of my career (if you will) here was mainly spent acting like an idiot. Still, I hoped maybe this thread would stop some of the child-like behavior.



On the monitoring of Free Thoughts; It needs to be. People like foxxie (or whatever his name was) greatly damage this site. Though, people who reply to him do even more so.
 
Tyler,

As Pollux has observed sciforums has gone through many changes that mainly reflect the quality and mix of the posters.

At this time while school is out in the north then perhaps there are too many immature posters. When schools go back then perhaps a more attractive balance will return.

I work full time and have a demanding job so my message rate can never be as high as those on school vacation, retired, out of work, etc. But I have been here nearly 3 years and have enjoyed watching the various personalities that sciforums has traversed.

There are really just a few approaches that make threads/forums distasteful –

1. Excessive abuse for no apparent reason.

2. Abuse as an overreaction to some ill-considered comment. There is really no need to respond in kind since that brings both sides down to the same low quality level.

3. Unnecessary profanities. I suspect that most who do this wouldn’t dream of doing it in person to a real stranger. It is also against the only rule here.

4. Excessive sarcasm. Sarcasm when used appropriately can be funny especially when the receiver doesn’t see it as an insult or a slight on their character. But to excess it becomes tiresome and boring and for some this appears to be their only style. One doesn’t have to try to be ‘clever’ all the time.

5. Excessive cynicism. This I find is one of the most destructive and unpleasant tactics that can be used in debates and discussions of any kind. It is generally designed to be hurtful to the receiver, and is therefore really quite anti-social and I’d consider it inappropriate for a public forum such as here. Unfortunately for some this is a primary tactic.

I would hope most are here to share ideas and to be social. This should be fun, and it can be if we all exercise a little constraint and show some basic respect for others as you would if you met in the street.

But those are the negatives; there are also some excellent debates that take place and some very useful ideas. I have learnt a lot here and I hope to continue to do so.

However, we do need a balance of quality mature posters to offset the inexperience of some of the young. Note that youth alone does not necessarily mean poor quality, and neither does age guarantee wisdom. But those are definite trends.

Sciforums can be like TV, some people just turn it on and just watch whatever is on. I guess that because I do not have much time I tend to be quite selective of which threads I join and then I write longer and I hope well-considered posts. This is the attraction of a message board as opposed to a chat room where one only has time for very short sound bites.

Otherwise, if the quality isn't quite right then just be patient things will certainly change.

My 2 cents.
Cris
 
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I see that inflation has hit the internet also. What used to be considered 2¢ now costs 10¢...:D

Seriously, I think this is the kind of comments we are looking for. Constructive ones.
 
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