Somebody Calls this Christian?
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
Woody said:
Woody, why don't you simply respond to my request. This certainly isn't the time you deliberately weasel your way from criticism. I'll block you until you are ready to actually respond.
Yorda,
Why do you think he calls himself Woody?
EDIT:
See?
SouthStar: Woody, why don't you simply respond to my request. This certainly isn't the time you deliberately weasel your way from criticism. I'll block you until you are ready to actually respond.
Woody: Is this your request Southstar: Didn't even Jesus eat with sinners?
The answer is odviously yes. He also asked them to go and sin no more did he not?
Southstar: You must be better than sinners then.
Woody: Everyone sins, even I do. But I do not make a lifestyle out of sin. A sinner is someone that makes a lifestyle out of substance abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, sexual perversion, theft, murder, etc. etc. or any other lifestlye that excludes God.
Southstar: You can not determine whether someone is 'saved' or not. Just because Person A says so doesn't mean it is so. There are, after all, a lot of people who call themselves Christians.
Woody: Yes indeed there are a lot of people that call themselves christians. In order to actually JOIN a church you must profess that you are a christian, and be living a respectable christian lifestyle. The church body can revoke a member if it is discovered for example they are an adulterer, a drug addict, living in cohabitation (without marriage) etc, etc. but they can still come to a church. I know a guy and a girl that lived together and came to church but they never became members. They knew the rules.
Woody: Is this your request Southstar: Didn't even Jesus eat with sinners?
The answer is odviously yes. He also asked them to go and sin no more did he not?
Southstar: You must be better than sinners then.
Woody: Everyone sins, even I do. But I do not make a lifestyle out of sin. A sinner is someone that makes a lifestyle out of substance abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, sexual perversion, theft, murder, etc. etc. or any other lifestlye that excludes God.
Southstar: You can not determine whether someone is 'saved' or not. Just because Person A says so doesn't mean it is so. There are, after all, a lot of people who call themselves Christians.
Woody: Yes indeed there are a lot of people that call themselves christians. In order to actually JOIN a church you must profess that you are a christian, and be living a respectable christian lifestyle. The church body can revoke a member if it is discovered for example they are an adulterer, a drug addict, living in cohabitation (without marriage) etc, etc. but they can still come to a church. I know a guy and a girl that lived together and came to church but they never became members. They knew the rules.
Woody said:
Interesting that you would chose to create a strawman instead of stick to what I actually said with regard to your lack of credibility in this forum. I pointed out your fallacious tendencies and habits here, which included your use of non sequiturs, begging the question, and strawmen. I also pointed out that your goal isn't to engage in intelligent discussion, but rather to "witness" to us all.
I didn't speak of the factual nature of the bible. Indeed, there are some verifiable facts within the bible. They usually have to do with geography, however. I've seen little else that can be factually verified and quite a bit that can be factually discredited within the bible. I do see it as a valuable work of human literature and it should be treated and revered as such. My bible sits between Melville and Steinbeck.
That you cite the bible as truth is a fallacy of yours, but it is one that I can appreciate since those that are indoctrinated in cults typically accept all cult literature and oral history as "truth" rather than subjective literature.
Woody said:
I don't think that. I think Jesus might be made up. He might have been a real person. There's no direct evidence beyond the christian cult to suggest his existance, but there's also none to outright reject it. Whether he existed or not isn't an issue for me. If he did exist, then he was undoubtedly a cult leader like Jim Jones, Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggart, the Pope, etc. and created a loyal following. People naturally follow those who have charisma and leadership traits, particularly when they need to believe in something greater than themselves.
Woody said:
What I really mean is that you lack credibility in this forum. For the reasons I cited.
S/W said: What I really mean is that you lack credibility in this forum. For the reasons I cited.
Woody says: That's reasonable enough.
What credibility does an atheist have on a religion forum?
At least I have a religion to talk about. My faith is christianity, and it is "on subject" for a religion forum.
And yet this forum is a gathering place for atheists, where they can comfort themselves with fellow disbelievers. Disputing God and the bible, well ok, so the wheat and chaff get separated on this earth. The wheat stays together and the chaff stays together.
Woody says: That's reasonable enough.
What credibility does an atheist have on a religion forum?
At least I have a religion to talk about. My faith is christianity, and it is "on subject" for a religion forum.
And yet this forum is a gathering place for atheists, where they can comfort themselves with fellow disbelievers. Disputing God and the bible, well ok, so the wheat and chaff get separated on this earth. The wheat stays together and the chaff stays together.
Woody said:
Your point is?
Aside from that, did Jesus say gay marriage was wrong? And did He say the (Protestant) Bible was the inspired Word of God?
By your definition:
a) Was Ghandi a sinner? Did he too make a "lifestyle" out of sin?
Numbers 31:15And Moses said to them: "Have you kept all the women alive? 16Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.
b) Was Moses then a sinner for advising Israelites to keep young virgins of their slain victims as concubines?
What do you mean by a 'respectable Christian lifestyle'?
Did Ghandi not live a life commended by Biblical writers? In which case, do you then claim that for people like him who have fulfilled the first part of your criteria, all they have to do is claim to be a Christian in order to join your Church?
What about one who meets all this but reject geocentrism (as the myth that 'the sun stood still' would have Christians believe) and perhaps also creationism? Can they hope to be members?
a) Are Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons Christians by your standard then?
b) Can someone who differs in theology but meets your standards join your church?
Most importantly, where does the Bible support this (seemingly arbitrary) criteria? There are a lot of people who are not adulterers, drug addicts, 'fornicators' and so on. In fact, they do not live a "lifestyle of sin" and probably 'sin' only as much as you do, if not less. Does this mean they can join your church if all they do is claim to be Christians?
Where did this come from? You are making the claim that homosexuality is wrong. Justify that.
This isn't about paedophilia, or my personal feelings regarding it.
Can you understand English? Should I draw a diagram? What?
To answer the question, (which I always do, and you're always incapable of): I hate to have to agree with Yorda, but in this instance he is right.. no? Two grown men who have the same sexual feelings towards each other vs a person who carries out certain actions against another without consent, without agreeance, etc etc.
Now, stop being a coward and justify how homosexuality is wrong.
I would explain it to you, but I'm a bit worried you either wont understand the English, or will try some futile and pathetic attempt to get out of it. Justify how homosexuality is wrong.
Fucking hell, I'm using as simple English as I can manage.
No you didn't, you chose a different word to try and get out of answering the question that you realise you cannot answer.
Here is the dictionary definition of homosexuality:
1) Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2) Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
Now, stop being a coward and justify how it is wrong. Thank you.
Yeah, and once you've learnt English you might just look up the correct word.
I don't need to argue with them. Unlike you, they're not stupid enough to mistake the word homosexuality for paedophilia, beastiality or any other word you feel like conjuring up just to avoid answering the question.
Like I said earlier, you're really not worth the effort. You're a coward.
Southstar said: There are a lot of people who are not adulterers, drug addicts, 'fornicators' and so on. In fact, they do not live a "lifestyle of sin" and probably 'sin' only as much as you do, if not less. Does this mean they can join your church if all they do is claim to be Christians?
Woody: Yes. We take a person's word at it. In addition they are supposed to be baptised to join the church. Baptism comes with repentence. A person can not both repent, and continue in a lifestyle of sin. Repentence means to turn away from the former lifestyle.
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S/S said: Your point is?
Woody: Jesus ate dinner with sinners, but he did not participate in their lifestyle.
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S/S said: Aside from that, did Jesus say gay marriage was wrong? And did He say the (Protestant) Bible was the inspired Word of God?
Jesus: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Woody: Jesus says God's model is the male/female model. He designed the plumbing to work that way. Think about it.
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S/S: Was Ghandi a sinner? Did he too make a "lifestyle" out of sin?
Woody: Everyone is a sinner until they repent.
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S/S: Was Moses then a sinner for advising Israelites to keep young virgins of their slain victims as concubines?
Woody: The requirement was that they were supposed to be virgins. How does this relate to a harem?
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S/S: What about one who meets all this but reject geocentrism (as the myth that 'the sun stood still' would have Christians believe) and perhaps also creationism? Can they hope to be members?
Woody: The one and only requirement for membership is faith in Christ that can be seen in a person's life.
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S/S: Are Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons Christians by your standard then?
Woody: The standard for membership is a church standard, and it is biblical. There will be some Mormons and JWs in heaven, but they will join their own church on earth.
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S/S: Can someone who differs in theology but meets your standards join your church?
Woody: When you say "you" I assume the church at large. The standards for membership are usually stated in the church bylaws. It can differ from one church to another, but the general requirement is to be a believer in Jesus Christ who is in good moral standing in his or her community.
The reasons are:
1) the church is a body of believers, and one or two people living in sin can really kill our effectiveness. The spirit of God is inhibited from action when part of the body is in sin. It can kill a church.
2) It is a better testimony to the community. We already have enough people calling us hippocrits without giving them a real reason.
Woody: Yes. We take a person's word at it. In addition they are supposed to be baptised to join the church. Baptism comes with repentence. A person can not both repent, and continue in a lifestyle of sin. Repentence means to turn away from the former lifestyle.
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S/S said: Your point is?
Woody: Jesus ate dinner with sinners, but he did not participate in their lifestyle.
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S/S said: Aside from that, did Jesus say gay marriage was wrong? And did He say the (Protestant) Bible was the inspired Word of God?
Jesus: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Woody: Jesus says God's model is the male/female model. He designed the plumbing to work that way. Think about it.
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S/S: Was Ghandi a sinner? Did he too make a "lifestyle" out of sin?
Woody: Everyone is a sinner until they repent.
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S/S: Was Moses then a sinner for advising Israelites to keep young virgins of their slain victims as concubines?
Woody: The requirement was that they were supposed to be virgins. How does this relate to a harem?
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S/S: What about one who meets all this but reject geocentrism (as the myth that 'the sun stood still' would have Christians believe) and perhaps also creationism? Can they hope to be members?
Woody: The one and only requirement for membership is faith in Christ that can be seen in a person's life.
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S/S: Are Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons Christians by your standard then?
Woody: The standard for membership is a church standard, and it is biblical. There will be some Mormons and JWs in heaven, but they will join their own church on earth.
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S/S: Can someone who differs in theology but meets your standards join your church?
Woody: When you say "you" I assume the church at large. The standards for membership are usually stated in the church bylaws. It can differ from one church to another, but the general requirement is to be a believer in Jesus Christ who is in good moral standing in his or her community.
The reasons are:
1) the church is a body of believers, and one or two people living in sin can really kill our effectiveness. The spirit of God is inhibited from action when part of the body is in sin. It can kill a church.
2) It is a better testimony to the community. We already have enough people calling us hippocrits without giving them a real reason.
Woody: Are you going to be a bigot by saying pedophilia is not ok, but homosexuality is ok? You're on a slippery slope that leads to the grotesque.
S/L: Where did this come from? You are making the claim that homosexuality is wrong. Justify that.
Woody: You say it is ok if two people consent. What if a child prostitute consents with an adult, is that ok?
What if an animal consents with an adult, is that ok?
What are you going to tell the members of NAMBLA, North American Man Boy Love Association?
NAMBLA
NAMBLA In the Encyclopedia
Many of the members had gay sex as minors with other minors or with adults. Are you going to say that is wrong, now that you advocate homosexuality? They are part of the gay agenda, and they feel they have the right to engage in sex with young boys.
Where are you going to draw the line and what is the basis for it? If you deviate from the moral standard, then why have a standard at all? Who is supposed to decide -- you?
When you buy into gay rights you also unwittingly buy into pedophilia and beastiality. Who is going to discriminate? Anything goes
S/L: Where did this come from? You are making the claim that homosexuality is wrong. Justify that.
Woody: You say it is ok if two people consent. What if a child prostitute consents with an adult, is that ok?
What if an animal consents with an adult, is that ok?
What are you going to tell the members of NAMBLA, North American Man Boy Love Association?
NAMBLA
NAMBLA In the Encyclopedia
Many of the members had gay sex as minors with other minors or with adults. Are you going to say that is wrong, now that you advocate homosexuality? They are part of the gay agenda, and they feel they have the right to engage in sex with young boys.
Where are you going to draw the line and what is the basis for it? If you deviate from the moral standard, then why have a standard at all? Who is supposed to decide -- you?
When you buy into gay rights you also unwittingly buy into pedophilia and beastiality. Who is going to discriminate? Anything goes
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Woody said:
This cum hoc, ergo propter hoc assumption that homosexual behavior equates to bestiality is exactly the sort of fallacy that reduces your credibility in this forum. It is, however, characteristic of how religious fanatics attempt to prove their positions, since actual evidence is absent to do so. Critical reasoning and logic fail in supporting those positions so fallacies and circular proofs are used instead.
Woody said:
Actually, I would think that an "atheist" has the most credibilty in a religion forum. Particularly one that is also an anthropologist, since my perspective is objective with regard to religion. From my perspective, all religions and worldviews are equally valid in the cultural sense. Perhaps, however, a little less so for those religions that actively seek to propagate themselves in the world by actively converting other religions through bribary, extortion, and terror.
The purpose of a Religion sub-forum in a Science message board is to discuss religion in the critical sense, and, in the spirit of science and scientific discovery, question it.
But your attempt to criticize those that don't agree with you is a typical and expected method of the religious fanatic who wants to limit those discussions and questions that are contrary.
How can you honestly expect me to answer questions when you can't even manage to answer the only question I ask, instead trying everything and anything in your power to avoid it?
You still haven't answered it.
Woody: justify how homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuality meaning sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Answer it or do not waste my time. I am positively sickened to the teeth when caught up in a debate with one of the world's true cowards.
See what I mean? I pity pathetic little weasels like yourself. And that's what you are Woody; a weasel. You do not have an ounce of honour, integrity, honesty or self respect. I detest that.
Without any doubt the most idiotic statement I have ever had the displeasure of reading on this forum. And you claim to be a grown man? It's shameful.
mr woody:you said
you sir are a paedophile.
that is not a statement you can justify so please dont it will not be read by me, I want nothing more to do with you.
and yorda repliedwoody said:
and then you saidYorda said:
this is the most sickest statement I've seen, if you believe that, then there is only one conclusion you can make from a statement like that.woody said:
you sir are a paedophile.
that is not a statement you can justify so please dont it will not be read by me, I want nothing more to do with you.
Mr. Stefan:
I suggest you study the Oedipus complex (male child development) and Electra complex (female child development). A child's sexual development starts between age 5 and 6.
Oedipus Complex
I personally see no difference between a homosexual and a pedophile -- they are both perverts. I never said I advocated these behaviors, I find them both quite disgusting.
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Jesus says: And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
As you can see, Jesus found child molestors disgusting as well.
But of course, you atheists want to write off the whole bible as a myth anyway.
I believe in the bible and its wholesome standards on sexual decency.
I suggest you study the Oedipus complex (male child development) and Electra complex (female child development). A child's sexual development starts between age 5 and 6.
Oedipus Complex
I personally see no difference between a homosexual and a pedophile -- they are both perverts. I never said I advocated these behaviors, I find them both quite disgusting.
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Jesus says: And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
As you can see, Jesus found child molestors disgusting as well.
But of course, you atheists want to write off the whole bible as a myth anyway.
I believe in the bible and its wholesome standards on sexual decency.
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Beherenow: Woody's got me thinking, once you eat meat, you're bound to be allow cannbalism. We should all stay away from that slippery slope.
Woody: The God of the bible commanded us to eat meat. He did not command us to be cannibals, or murderers.
Woody: The God of the bible commanded us to eat meat. He did not command us to be cannibals, or murderers.
Woody said:
Actually, I don't think he commanded us to eat meat, but he allowed, because we wanted so much.
The sexual advices which Moses told us were quite rational. Sex with an animal for example, leads to diseases, and no babies.
Don't you think that sex between a man and a woman is wrong if the use "protection". Since they only do it for pleasure. Like homosexual sex. For flesh. Not for God. Not for reproduction.
If God wanted us to use protection, like condoms, wouldn't God have planted some in nature, like he planted fruits, for example?
Woody said:
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. --- Moses the lover of children; giver of peace.
Disputing God and the bible, well ok, so the wheat and chaff get separated on this earth. The wheat stays together and the chaff stays together.
Religion divides people while the lack of religion would bring those people together for a greater cause.
And of course, we are to assume you Christians consider yourselves the wheat while the rest of us are the chaff?
Not only do you divide, you conquer.
Religion divides people while the lack of religion would bring those people together for a greater cause.
And of course, we are to assume you Christians consider yourselves the wheat while the rest of us are the chaff?
Not only do you divide, you conquer.
And you have yet to justify how homosexuality is wrong.
I'm still waiting...
Well then, let's use that very same book that you state is the true word of god and point out where that very same god commands that you stone your naughty son to death, stone prostitutes to death, stone fortune tellers to death. That you can happily own slaves, women have no rights, etc etc etc. As a result it becomes apparent that you also agree with these "wholesome" standards of the bible?
Or you're just a big hypocrite. You choose.
Again, he commanded you to stone bad sons, prostitutes and fortune tellers to death, stated that it's ok to keep slaves, commanded women not to talk in church, because that would be a disgrace.
Looks like you've drawn some personal lines here Woody.. Now stop avoiding the subject and justify how homosexuality is wrong.
with this statement your just digging yourself deeper, I did ask you not to try to defend that statement.Woody said:
it is a common statement for paedophiles to say that the child ask for it or the child was tempting them.
and to try to justify it with the Oedipus and electra complex, which is in regard to intense devotion from the child for it's mother/father and hatred for the other parent.
the oedipus/electra complex does not suggest the child has had sexual relations with their parent.(they have no prove that these complex's actually exist, it is only an assumption.)
it's just baseless bullshit, dont try to cloud the issue, 99.9% of paedophiles are male you sir are a paedophile. I shall not reply again.