Somebody Calls this Christian?
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
But you said god is everywhere so what difference would it make? I would stand as much chance of seeing god under my sofa or in my underpants as I would anywhere else... no?
You're probably not aware of this, but jesus said not to go to church, but to find a quiet place at home to converse with god. Surely I should listen to him instead of you?
Why would it be odd?
Hey it ain't me, it's what the bible says. It's what your god has said. Tell your wife if she doesn't like it she can happily change religion and worship a less chauvanistic god.
Of course can't blame her for being grumpy.. given your discussions in this thread it stands to reason the girl is probably just in need of a decent seeing to.
S/L said: You're probably not aware of this, but jesus said not to go to church, but to find a quiet place at home to converse with god.
Woody says: Yeah, it makes a good excuse for somebody that isn't really interested in finding out. There's no gaurantee you'll find God in church, especially if you aren't looking for Him. If you find Him in your closet, you'll be a closet christian. There is already enough of them around (they sure know how to keep their faith a secret).
Woody says: Yeah, it makes a good excuse for somebody that isn't really interested in finding out. There's no gaurantee you'll find God in church, especially if you aren't looking for Him. If you find Him in your closet, you'll be a closet christian. There is already enough of them around (they sure know how to keep their faith a secret).
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Christian Hypocrisy as defined by the New Testament
Matthew 23
They give out laws to others, but they do not live by them (vs. 3-4)
Pastor Hornbuckle in my own community accused of three counts of rape and positive for methamphetamine use. He preached consistently at his cult center regarding "sexual depravity" and the sins of "drug addiction."
This activity isn't limited to church hierarchies, either. Lay persons within the churches consistently attend weekly services, answer their phones, "having a blessed day," and keep a bible close at hand, all the while engaging in precisely the activities they say others should not: drug use, promiscuity, embezzlement, theft, assault, etc. One look at the statistics of the nation's prisons will show a high number of inmates that profess to be "Christian."
They love impressive, public religious displays, and being referred to with religious titles (vs. 5-12)
One need look only as far as televangelist nutcases like Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Billy Graham, and "Dr." Voddie Baucham to see a bunch that want to be in the limelight. But the very titles of "reverend," "deacon," "bishop," "cardinal," etc. fall right into Matt. 23:5-12. I especially like those theologians that refer to themselves as "doctor" with their unaccredited Ph.D.s.
They win converts to their own religion, but not to God (vs. 13-15)
The Pottershouse Cult: 28,000 + members and nearly every single one I ever met was a regular at the club scene, spoke of promiscuous sex, etc. Two in particular gossiped in the office constantly, wore revealing clothing, had children out of wedlock, drank alcohol, used copious amounts of profanity, etc.
But, hey, that's my own anecdotal account, which is essentially worthless since it is not quantitative. But there are other issues with this so-called "Christian" church:
Audio file (.wav – 603k) of Pottershouse evangelist Mike Sawyer preaching about violence in a manner JC surely wouldn't agree with.
They re-interpret their own laws in order to suit their own purpose (vs. 16-22)
Robert Talton, idiot at large in the Texas Legislature: uses Christianity and Jesus as justification for one of the world's largest body counts with regard to state-sponsored executions. From a party and religion that claims to "err on the side of life," this seems a bit hypocritical.
They emphasize minuscule religious details, yet ignore the most important truths (vs. 23-24)
The homosexual issue above, for instance. Mentioned a handful of times in the bible compared to the many other sins and issues of humanity that concerned Jesus. Yet it is a HUGE deal to so-called "Christians." Indeed, only about 2% of the population is homosexual. There seems to be a far greater problem with so many other things that "Christians" could spend their time and money on, yet they expend almost as much of both on this as abortion –another issue that only affects a small portion of society.
But where are these Christians when it comes to speaking out against the atrocities occurring in places like Darfur, Sudan or Rwanda? Perhaps if the thousands of people dying in places like this were a little whiter, they would be more easily noticed.
They keep the outward appearance clean, while leaving the inside corrupt
(vs.25-28)
<img src="http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/wfaa/03-05/0318_pastor.jpg">
The "good" Pastor (he goes by "Bishop") Hornbuckle mentioned above. Too bad you can't see the amount of gold on his hands! The footage shown on television in D/FW had him wearing more gold than Midas.
<img src="http://www.reverendfun.com/add_toon_info.php?date=20050516&language=en">
They deny their own sinfulness (vs. 29-36)
No kidding
Matthew 23
They give out laws to others, but they do not live by them (vs. 3-4)
Pastor Hornbuckle in my own community accused of three counts of rape and positive for methamphetamine use. He preached consistently at his cult center regarding "sexual depravity" and the sins of "drug addiction."
This activity isn't limited to church hierarchies, either. Lay persons within the churches consistently attend weekly services, answer their phones, "having a blessed day," and keep a bible close at hand, all the while engaging in precisely the activities they say others should not: drug use, promiscuity, embezzlement, theft, assault, etc. One look at the statistics of the nation's prisons will show a high number of inmates that profess to be "Christian."
They love impressive, public religious displays, and being referred to with religious titles (vs. 5-12)
One need look only as far as televangelist nutcases like Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Billy Graham, and "Dr." Voddie Baucham to see a bunch that want to be in the limelight. But the very titles of "reverend," "deacon," "bishop," "cardinal," etc. fall right into Matt. 23:5-12. I especially like those theologians that refer to themselves as "doctor" with their unaccredited Ph.D.s.
They win converts to their own religion, but not to God (vs. 13-15)
The Pottershouse Cult: 28,000 + members and nearly every single one I ever met was a regular at the club scene, spoke of promiscuous sex, etc. Two in particular gossiped in the office constantly, wore revealing clothing, had children out of wedlock, drank alcohol, used copious amounts of profanity, etc.
But, hey, that's my own anecdotal account, which is essentially worthless since it is not quantitative. But there are other issues with this so-called "Christian" church:
Audio file (.wav – 603k) of Pottershouse evangelist Mike Sawyer preaching about violence in a manner JC surely wouldn't agree with.
They re-interpret their own laws in order to suit their own purpose (vs. 16-22)
Robert Talton, idiot at large in the Texas Legislature: uses Christianity and Jesus as justification for one of the world's largest body counts with regard to state-sponsored executions. From a party and religion that claims to "err on the side of life," this seems a bit hypocritical.
They emphasize minuscule religious details, yet ignore the most important truths (vs. 23-24)
The homosexual issue above, for instance. Mentioned a handful of times in the bible compared to the many other sins and issues of humanity that concerned Jesus. Yet it is a HUGE deal to so-called "Christians." Indeed, only about 2% of the population is homosexual. There seems to be a far greater problem with so many other things that "Christians" could spend their time and money on, yet they expend almost as much of both on this as abortion –another issue that only affects a small portion of society.
But where are these Christians when it comes to speaking out against the atrocities occurring in places like Darfur, Sudan or Rwanda? Perhaps if the thousands of people dying in places like this were a little whiter, they would be more easily noticed.
They keep the outward appearance clean, while leaving the inside corrupt
(vs.25-28)
<img src="http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/wfaa/03-05/0318_pastor.jpg">
The "good" Pastor (he goes by "Bishop") Hornbuckle mentioned above. Too bad you can't see the amount of gold on his hands! The footage shown on television in D/FW had him wearing more gold than Midas.
<img src="http://www.reverendfun.com/add_toon_info.php?date=20050516&language=en">
They deny their own sinfulness (vs. 29-36)
No kidding
OK Skinwalker, You've made a lot of good points. Human beings are imperfect and they make mistakes. Christians are human beings and they make mistakes too. Christians and all human beings need Jesus Christ to undo the problems on an eternal scale of perfection.
I have seen a lot of things happen in my 20 something years at church. I know of a christian minister that left his wife, family, and the church, to go live the gay lifestyle.
I remember giving money to a poor, withered street person to buy food. He said he was a deacon at a church many years ago, but he became an alchoholic and he lost everything including his job and family. He just wanted something to eat.
I could write a thesis on all the things that have gone wrong in peoples' lives after they became christians. Christianity is a hard, narrow road, but Christ is there if you want Him. The road to hell is easy, you don't have to change a thing to get there.
So now I ask you, What can you find wrong with Jesus? Were any of these christians acting like Jesus Christ when they did these things or the things you made note of?
People that use the "hippocrit" argument aren't looking at Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. None of us can be just like him. Do you really think you can? You are no better or worse than anyone else, except you aren't forgiven by God because you never asked.
In Jesus' day, the pharisees thought they were better than everyone else. Jesus told them that whores and tax collectors would get in heaven before they would. This line of reasoning turns off a lot of people -- Jeffrey Dalmer goes to heaven before Christopher Reeves because Jeffrey (a serial killer) accepted Jesus but Chistopher (a philanthropist) did not.
People do not see the justice in this equation because they do not see that ALL sin is wrong, and God is eternally righteous. Human nature is capable of anything when it is left to itself. So in the end, I die and recieve the incorruptible nature of christ, you die and continue to have a human nature that is capable of anything wrong. The things we did on earth do not change our nature in eternity. Only God can change our nature, but he will not unless we want him to. I've made that choice. After you die, it is too late to choose. Christ did His work for the living, not for the dead.
I have seen a lot of things happen in my 20 something years at church. I know of a christian minister that left his wife, family, and the church, to go live the gay lifestyle.
I remember giving money to a poor, withered street person to buy food. He said he was a deacon at a church many years ago, but he became an alchoholic and he lost everything including his job and family. He just wanted something to eat.
I could write a thesis on all the things that have gone wrong in peoples' lives after they became christians. Christianity is a hard, narrow road, but Christ is there if you want Him. The road to hell is easy, you don't have to change a thing to get there.
So now I ask you, What can you find wrong with Jesus? Were any of these christians acting like Jesus Christ when they did these things or the things you made note of?
People that use the "hippocrit" argument aren't looking at Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. None of us can be just like him. Do you really think you can? You are no better or worse than anyone else, except you aren't forgiven by God because you never asked.
In Jesus' day, the pharisees thought they were better than everyone else. Jesus told them that whores and tax collectors would get in heaven before they would. This line of reasoning turns off a lot of people -- Jeffrey Dalmer goes to heaven before Christopher Reeves because Jeffrey (a serial killer) accepted Jesus but Chistopher (a philanthropist) did not.
People do not see the justice in this equation because they do not see that ALL sin is wrong, and God is eternally righteous. Human nature is capable of anything when it is left to itself. So in the end, I die and recieve the incorruptible nature of christ, you die and continue to have a human nature that is capable of anything wrong. The things we did on earth do not change our nature in eternity. Only God can change our nature, but he will not unless we want him to. I've made that choice. After you die, it is too late to choose. Christ did His work for the living, not for the dead.
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