Somebody Calls this Christian?

W

Woody

Musical Creationist
Registered Senior Member
From the poll concerning the occult, I find christians and non-christians have a consistent bias on the characteristics that identify a christian. Non-christians for example give Jim Jones the christian moniker. Christians give Jim Jones the demon label.

Jim Jones was ordained by the Disciples of Christ. I don't see where he attended college, but I am still looking.

His idol was a man called Father Divine:

Father Divine

How could anyone worship this grotesque excuse for a man that called himself God? How could the christian label be identified with him?

Jim Jones followed in the footsteps of his hero, claiming he was God too:

Jim Jones the reincarnation of Father Divine

More about Jim Jones

The bible teaches anyone that claims to be God is from the spirit of antichrist.
The bible teaches there is no reincarnation.
The lifestyles of these two men were grotesquely perverted.

Yet they carry the name "christian" by many people, how so?

What identifies a person as a christian in your view? Perhaps another poll is needed.
 
woody said:
From the poll concerning the occult, I find christians and non-christians have a consistent bias on the characteristics that identify a christian. Non-christians for example give Jim Jones the christian moniker.
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of course, as he was.
woody said:
Christians give Jim Jones the demon label.
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of course, they do, in hindsight, but they originally followed like sheep, as did the davidians (vernon wayne howell) with david koresh, as any xian sect (and theres 34,000 of them, make you wonder whos going to be the next crazy.) does untill something nasty happens and then they condemn, just to try to look good again.
you see anything, that has it's roots, in the supernatural has to be a mistake from the start.
you have to be deranged, to believe in fantasy over reality.
 
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A stray sheep is still a sheep. Even satanists are Christian, if they worship the Christian devil.
 
What identifies a person as a christian in your view?
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Someone who has ALL these characteristics:

-- consistently testifies of God's love for us,
-- calls himself a Christian,
-- believes Jesus is the Saviour.


People, esp. militant atheists and other fundamentalists, like to jump on the bandwaggon and automatically consider everyone a Christian who has called himself a Christian, or goes to a Christian church. Thus, the Inquisition is then considered to be a "standard of Christianity", for example.

To be able to discern between Christians and those who are not that, one has to have a certain knowledge of the Bible and Christian history -- so that one can decide for oneself whether a person is a Christian or not.

We don't consider everyone a multimillionaire who calls himself a multimillionare. We don't consider everyone a friend just because this person has said so. We observe them, see for ourselves whether their words match their actions.
It is a shame then to consider everyone a Christian who has called himself thus; or, even worse, who has been called a Christian by others.

One must have some knowledge, and must must investigate before one can consider someone a Christian.


Perhaps another poll is needed.
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I wonder what questions to ask. It shouldn't be easy at all.
 
A Christian is someone who lives the teachings of Christ.
Of course on one level this is simply begging the question.
Jesus was a Jew and observed Jewish customs. Should Christians follow?, is a valid question.
Certainly there nuances in what “the teachings of Christ” might include.

Seems clear to me that only those who have a closed mind concerning Christianity would imply that Jim Jones etc was a Christian. Of course this includes his own followers.
It is true that each “church” or set of believers has a particular litmus test for Christians, whether real or implied.
Many NASCAR fans undoubtedly each know the REAL meaning of “NASCAR driver”, and many supposed drivers are so in name only. “No real NASCAR driver would. . . “

It is fair, I believe, to say that Jim Jones represents Christianity. Any philosophy run amok can show itself in grossly distorted ways.
Hitler represented Darwinism as well as Jim Jones represented Christianity.

Audible: you have to deranged, to believe in fantasy over reality.
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You are, of course, assuming one has a choice.
If you are starving and I ask if you want that apple or this make believe bowl of fruit, you would be deranged to choose the latter, on that we would agree.

I would say it is extremely likely you have fantasies you hold dear that I am thankful I have shed. I do not think you are deranged for this reason (though perhaps for another). I merely think you are unenlightened, naive, or possibly even ignorant.
 
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water: Someone who has ALL these characteristics:
-- consistently testifies of God's love for us,
-- calls himself a Christian,
-- believes Jesus is the Saviour.
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I believe someone is a Christian if they live the teachings of Christ, which is possible even if that person never heard of Christ or the Bible.
The Bible I read says the pure of heart are already living the Word.
 
Woody: > What identifies a person as a christian in your view?

battig1370: > A Christian is a disciple of Saul/St.Paul and his Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
BeHereNow said:
I believe someone is a Christian if they live the teachings of Christ, which is possible even if that person never heard of Christ or the Bible.
The Bible I read says the pure of heart are already living the Word.
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I know this argument.
There is a counterargument to this which I do not remember, and the person who knows it will come back in a week from now. I'll let him now, and he'll explain.
 
It's all about faith Woody, remember that.

It's obvious that if jesus did return he'd be instantly dismissed by you lot. Of course you'd be asking for him to prove he's jesus by showing miracles and the like - and thus showing the true stupidity and hypocricy of all that you preach.
 
Audible: you have to deranged, to believe in fantasy over reality.

Woody: Why didn't you vote that way in the poll? Is deranged different from being insane? How do you determine the difference?
 
A Christian is one who obeys what is reputed to be the alledged teachings of a so-called Deity.

All Christians begin on hearsay advice. They then end up thinking they are true Christians in comparison to Sect X (by some arbitrary standard of course).

No one knew God via a medium.
 
§outh§tar said:
A Christian is one who obeys what is reputed to be the alledged teachings of a so-called Deity.
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To Christians, it would be: "A Christian is one who obeys what is known to be the true teachings of the only true God.


All Christians begin on hearsay advice.
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We all "begin on hearsay advice".
If nobody told you about metacognition, you wouldn't know it exists.


They then end up thinking they are true Christians in comparison to Sect X (by some arbitrary standard of course).
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For the heck of it: What would be an absolute standard?
 
Water: I know this argument.
There is a counterargument to this which I do not remember, and the person who knows it will come back in a week from now. I'll let him now, and he'll explain.
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That’s good.
I’d be glad to correct his missimpressions.
 
This was a Christian destructive, doomsday cult founded and led by James Warren Jones (1931-1978)

It's logical that those that consider themselves "christian" would want to distance themselves from The Peoples' Temple, but the fact of the matter is that Jim Jones' cult was grounded in christianity. Christians always seem better at excluding others than including them, but in this case, exclusion seems logical. It still doesn't refute the fact that Jones and his followers believed themselves to be a christian cult.

From an outside and impartial perspective, it was a cult that was christian, albeit one of the most destructive.

You don't have to like it, but it really isn't up to you to catagorize. It's up to the secular anthropologists who write the textbooks :)
 
water: > A Christian is one who obeys what is known to be the true teachings of the only true God.

battig1370: > Can you list the true teachings of the only true God? We'd all like know. That would get rid of the division and confussion within christianity. But the where does christianity get its teachings from that causes so much division?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
Woody said:
Woody: Why didn't you vote that way in the poll? Is deranged different from being insane? How do you determine the difference?
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but I did.
your original question in the poll was
woody said:
Why do people join the occult?
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not why become xian.
however question 1, of the poll was a waste, of space as the rest asked similar questions, for instance number 2, if they were likely to be xian then they were already crazy.
number 3, as theres no supernatural, well you got to be crazy.
number 6, states your crazy to believe that shit.
number 9 just says I'm not crazy too.
 
battig1370 said:
water: > A Christian is one who obeys what is known to be the true teachings of the only true God.

battig1370: > Can you list the true teachings of the only true God? We'd all like know. That would get rid of the division and confussion within christianity. But the where does christianity get its teachings from that causes so much division?

Peace be with you, Paul
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Khm.

I replied to SouthStar, transforming what he said:

§outh§tar said:
A Christian is one who obeys what is reputed to be the alledged teachings of a so-called Deity.
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water said:
To Christians, it would be: "A Christian is one who obeys what is known to be the true teachings of the only true God.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know what "the true teachings of the only true God" are, but it is certainly the case that each fraction claims to have it.
 
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