Some facts about guns in the US

People still complaining about guns that kill people, but still not a word about pools being outlawed because they kill people. (confudelled)

http://abc11.com/news/baby-found-unconscious-in-swimming-pool-dies/286787/

Because pools were not specifically designed to kill people. Cars, even though they also kill a lot of people, are a necessity and that is why there are strict regulations on the use of cars. Driving test, License, Registration, Insurance, all are required for using a vehicle on public roads.

What is so onerous to having strict regulations on ownership and use of guns which ARE specifically designed to kill?

Have you seen the latest news of a school teacher here in Idaho, who shot himself in the foot in a chemistry class? This was a responsible person to whom we trust our children to become responsible persons. Just another accidental shooting, I'm sure, but what if instead of his foot he had hit a student? Was it "necessary" for him to bring a deadly weapon into the class room. Who was he protecting and from whom?
 
Because pools were not specifically designed to kill people.

Were prescription drugs designed to kill people? How about cell phones? No? They were designed for happy times??? Then how do you explain the fact that they kill people even though they were designed for happy times? Are you more concerned about what pools were designed for, or the fact that they kill people?
 
People still complaining about guns that kill people, but still not a word about pools being outlawed because they kill people. (confudle'd)
The difference is that swimming pools, automobiles, and all the other everyday dangers you run into, have a legitimate purpose. They all provide a service so it becomes a cost-benefit analysis: is the benefit worth the cost?

Of course it is. In the USA we simply could not get along without cars. This country was not built around public transportation routes. Sure, we can get along without swimming pools, but the actual risk of drowning in a pool is about the same as being killed by lightning or bees.

But guns have no legitimate purpose. All they do is make pathetic little men like George Zimmerman and Adam Lanza feel like heroes. Sure, the gun nuts insist that their guns are for "protection," but they carefully ignore the statistics telling us that each one of those fucking goddamned guns is five times as likely to kill the owner, a member of his family, a friend, a confused stranger, or someone who is the target of his gun after it's stolen or wrestled out of his hands by a criminal.

I don't understand how anyone can say with a straight face that it's reasonable to possess an object that is more likely to kill him or his family than a burglar, an assailant or a rabid cougar.

Gun nuts are simply wired wrong. Their logic circuits are defective. I don't trust them.
 
I don't know what law you are referring to but
that's probably because i'm not refering to a law but a court case.

However, I am sure that 2+ CENTURIES ago the authors of the Second Amendment had no idea of modern warfare and the highly sophisticated weapons that have been invented since that "article" was written. Thus it is entirely reasonable to regulate and if necessary restrict the sale and use of certain military weapons which in the hands of "bad" guys can lead to mass killings, a fact which is obvious today but did not exist in the days of single shot black powder rifles.

I find it entirely logical that, in view of the fire power of gangs have created the perceived need by police to arm themselves with weapons of equal or greater power. I am not in favor of this entire trend, but as long as criminals can have easy access to "specialized weapons of war" with 30 round clips, law enforcement will feel compelled to spend tax payer dollars on heavy armaments.

IMO, the only way to reduce this weapons race between criminals and law enforcement is to restrict "availability" of military type weapons. The public has plenty choice left of selecting appropriate weapons for sport or hunting.

IMO, the need for regulation of certain weapons is needed. I live in No Idaho and everyone I know goes hunting for winter meat, but no one I know uses military type guns, which would not bring down a big Elk or Moose or, if necessary a Grizzly bear, unless 3 or 4 guys pump 100 bullets in such "big game".

But we also have a large number of "survivalist" and "neo-nazis", who are counting on a type of Armageddon and are intentionally stocking armaments for an invasion of foreign armies, or even in the hope of one day gaining enough military power to overthrow the government.
This worries me a great deal.

Where does the Second Amendment stop? I am willing to speculate that if the authors had any idea what those simple words "right to bear arms" would, two centuries later, be interpreted that anyone can buy any weapon they like from any gunstore or gun-show. I am certain that was not the intent of the Second Amendment, which does qualify the right to bear arms with the second sentence "a well regulated militia" being necessary. IMO there have to be regulations and restrictions placed on certain weapons, which have no other use than mass killing.
there in lie the problem. it doesn't take long to flood guns into an area when it is stupidly easy to obtain them. to quite literally takes a generational timeframe to signifigantly reduce the numbers of firearms floating around.
 
The difference is that swimming pools, automobiles, and all the other everyday dangers you run into, have a legitimate purpose. They all provide a service so it becomes a cost-benefit analysis: is the benefit worth the cost?

Are you trying to say that the Grandma should tell the parents that the pool was designed for enjoyment, so they don't need to worry about the drowning of their child, it was never designed to be that way?
 
Wow...
Yall don't call him "Blade" for a nickname by any chance, do you?

No
However, My uncle Fuzzy had a fireman friend named Marty who had a cancerous growth on the tip of his penis. The doctors had to cut off an inch or 2. His wife took to calling him Stumpy.

Different "Stumpy" here?
 
ok, so you are pissed off based upon my political beliefs?
- - - -
I ask only because it seems to me to have snowballed after that bear/brick discussion and you seem to have suddenly had an unhealthy obsession with my comments.
- - -
and blaming me for your ineffectual movement or abilities politically is kind of reaching, isn't it?
- - - -
because I have lived in neighborhoods that you would be afraid to be within a mile of without armored vehicles and SWAT teams on standby?
- - - -

There was no "bear/brick discussion" with that poster.

There was no expression of anger at anyone's actual political beliefs from me, merely a reference to the overwhelmingly demonstrated gullibility of the gun vote crowd whenever some radio mouth tells them so and so is coming to take their guns - which was not personally directed, btw, so taking it personally is what we call in the trade a "tell".

There was no blame for any frustration of my own political efforts, which are unknown to that poster.

And we see once again - for the fiftieth time or more - the obliviousness of the gridlock guys to their own ignorance, arrogance, and presumption in assigning history and circumstance and opinion and a whole raft of idiotic stereotypical characteristics to people they know nothing about (bad neighborhoods lived in? really?),

often and ironically immediately after bitching and whining about the unfairness of other people simply describing accurately what they themselves have posted right here, or referring to simply verifiable and completely obvious circumstances of the world around them, which they take to be the very kinds of unwarranted presumptions they demonstrate over and over and over -

So there's the one jaw of the gridlock. No progress in getting accountability for irresponsible gun ownership lies in that direction.

And here's the other:
The difference is that swimming pools, automobiles, and all the other everyday dangers you run into, have a legitimate purpose.
No, they don't. They are recreational. They don't even bring home venison or warn off burglars or get rid of garden varmints. No "cost benefit analysis" is going to balance the lives of dozens of innocent children against a triviality like having fun splashing around without even a lifeguard on duty.

Gun ownership is a Constitutional right that needs no justifications, but the continual attempts to deny that it has any are nevertheless threats - and they close off major avenues of agreement: the laws and enforcement we need would be designed to avoid damaging the legitimate employments of guns. For that, one must recognize them. So no progress in accountability for irresponsible gun ownership lies in that direction.
 
Are you trying to say that the Grandma should tell the parents that the pool was designed for enjoyment, so they don't need to worry about the drowning of their child, it was never designed to be that way?
You can't argue logic with someone who's grieving. Duh? But what we can do is give people the information that having a swimming pool is a good way to keep the kids around home during summer break, making them a good deal safer than they're likely to be in many of the other places they might consider going.

As for the drowned baby, the world is full of stupid people. Stupid people do stupid things, and sometimes they're fatal. Children in America have an incredibly low mortality rate, what with all the vaccines, antibiotics and surgery at their disposal--not to mention those stifling car seats, and baby carriages built like miniature Volvos. Drowning is actually one of their top five causes of death, because in this country there aren't a lot of other threats.

Unfortunately when they reach adolescence, their leading causes of death will be suicide, homicide, road accidents and overdosing on recreational use of their parents' legal drugs (not necessarily in that order).

All nuts are wired wrong. People that let babies die in pools are wired wrong. No perception of reality to leave an 18 month old alone with a dangerous (read deadly) pool!
Well yeah. It's a shame that we can't make people take classes, pass a test and qualify for a license before they can have children. That would sure solve the overpopulation problem!
 
Fraggle said:
I don't understand how anyone can say with a straight face that it's reasonable to possess an object that is more likely to kill him or his family than a burglar, an assailant or a rabid cougar.

Doesn't Mrs. Fraggle own a gun?
 
Gun ownership is a Constitutional right that needs no justifications,
only since june 2008. before that it was a privilage. in fact their is a supreme court case from the 30's where a person arguing his fake second amendment rights to gun were laughed out of court because their weapon had no military viability and therefore not a right to carry because it provided no national security benefit. its kind of the reason why there wasn't a supreme court ruling stating the second amendment provided a personal right to a gun for 200+ years.
but the continual attempts to deny that it has any are nevertheless threats -
that you and the rest of pro weapon ideology don't like the fact that as written the second amendment doesn't provide for a right to a gun doesn't makes us the problem for mentioning it. it makes you the problem for lacking the intellectual and moral maturity to handle it. it amazes me the level of childish argument and behavior among those the proclaim the RIGHT OF THE GUN.
and they close off major avenues of agreement: the laws and enforcement we need would be designed to avoid damaging the legitimate employments of guns. For that, one must recognize them. So no progress in accountability for irresponsible gun ownership lies in that direction.
again that you don't like the facts doesn't mean were evil. and doesn't make your intransigence our fault. your actions remain solely your responsibility.
 
only since june 2008. before that it was a privilage. in fact their is a supreme court case from the 30's where a person arguing his fake second amendment rights to gun were laughed out of court because their weapon had no military viability and therefore not a right to carry because it provided no national security benefit. its kind of the reason why there wasn't a supreme court ruling stating the second amendment provided a personal right to a gun for 200+ years.

Perhaps you misunderstood some of the points you were making?

Wikipedia said:
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states, which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

Please cite the case from the '30s you're referring to.

that you and the rest of pro weapon ideology don't like the fact that as written the second amendment doesn't provide for a right to a gun doesn't makes us the problem for mentioning it. it makes you the problem for lacking the intellectual and moral maturity to handle it. it amazes me the level of childish argument and behavior among those the proclaim the RIGHT OF THE GUN.

Is that a sentence? Did you mention childish arguments?

again that you don't like the facts doesn't mean were evil. and doesn't make your intransigence our fault. your actions remain solely your responsibility.

That's the whole point: Your actions are your responsibility. :D
 
As for the drowned baby, the world is full of stupid people. Stupid people do stupid things, and sometimes they're fatal.

I agree!! That's why it's stupid for people to complain about guns killing people when it's really the stupid people that are the problem, not the guns! Pools in the hands of stupid people kill more people than guns in the hands of stupid people, no?
 
@Motor Daddy: If corporations are 'people too', aren't nations? There are some awfully stupid people in charge of nations waging wars right now, so guns kill more than pools...

Or really, isn't it like this: Idiots kill more often than rational people?

@Trooper: Thanks, fascinating that it also invalidates pjdude1219's contention... Since the weapon wasn't military grade, they ruled that it was correct to prosecute under the current law.

Wow. :yawn:
 
@Motor Daddy: If corporations are 'people too', aren't nations? There are some awfully stupid people in charge of nations waging wars right now, so guns kill more than pools...

Wars are waged because "Please don't do that" has a record of zero successful results for peace. Force gets things done over time!
 
I've raised children, too. Have you read "The Prince and The Discourses", or "The Screwtape Letters"? :D
 
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