And thats how cults start lol
So Why Be Athiest If You're Just Gonna Die?Whats The Point Of Sticking Out For It?
- Thread starter All.For.One
- Start date
You do have a point though and I know where you are coming from but it's not up to me and I would want to say where they would go because it's in the end not up to me but to God.
GodlessEvil said:
To commit suicide requires choice - to live or not to live. To kill yourself to get to heaven was exactly the temptation Jesus was offered according to the bible. Satan said 'Go on, jump off this high place for it is written that God's angels will hold you up and prevent you from hurting yourself.'
Jesus replied 'You must not put the Lord your God to the test.'
To jump would be to put God's word to the test, to doubt Him in the first instance and ask Him to 'prove it'.
i cannot imagine a 6 year old being able to come up with the whole suicide notion in the first place but lets take worse case scenario and assume the child has been abused, tortured etc etc and that child becomes so low that when they find a big packet of pills, they know that the misery will end if they eat those pills because 'pills are dangerous.'
The 6 year old makes a conscious choice and swallows the lot. Who could blame that child? Do you not think that God sees the entire tradegy? God's anger is not going to burn against the child but rather the abusers. The child is saved. Blessed are the persecuted.
peace
c20
All.For.One said:
That makes you sound like a politician, you cannot answer the question so you go around it.
If god sends children to hell, i think this is bad management, if children get sent to heaven no matter what, it is also bad management.
There is no answer, because you simply do not know, but if one child gets sent to hell, that is enough for me to believe god is no better than satan.
c20H25N3o said:
YES and double YES that is the point, god would never send a child to hell, so we can easiliy ensure our children go to heaven by sacrificing our own souls to be damned in hell could we not?
By making all the children kill themselves.
I mean after all the universe cannot go on forever, there will be end days and the destruction of the sun and universe,why not ensure they all go there now? for 100% certain.
Lets put this in human terms not on divine judgement that is only for God. What happens to a child who commits murder in a court of law?
Children can't comprehend death. So there for can they comprehend killing another person as wrong?. A good family friend on mine laughed when she saw her dead grand mother thinking she was just going for a big sleep. She was 10 years old at the time. She could not understand that her grandma had left this earth.
All.For.One said:
Depends from country to country in the UK i think the minimum age for prison is 10, mary bell was 10 years old when she killed several children,she was sentenced to life detention when she was 11 though.
Other countrys it will be younger, maybe as young as 6.
All.For.One said:
Child soldiers pretty much understand pump a few more slugs in the head would stop that irriating twitching.
Before the term "children" was commerialized, do read up about life styles in the dark ages or in less ~cola~ countries. (would say pepsi but I prefer fat santa)
All.For.One said:
If your argument is true, then alot of 6 year olds would be killing people, after all if it isn't wrong they may aswell do it.
However society steps in at an early age and we are taught it is wrong.
Killing is wrong simply on the basis that it is theft, we should not take away something others have because we would not want it taken away ourselves,stealing the right to live is the worst theft that i can think of.
Thats a moral argument, we do not need religous teachings to tell us something is wrong.
If we do need religion then every atheist would be a murderer, in-fact it is often the opposite, if you kill someone and repent the sin many believe from this they will go to heaven, this is dangerous.
Like in the case of islam extremists they think it is ok to blow people up and still go to heaven, religion can be abused way too easily, we bare witness to this in this day and age of terrorism.
GodlessEvil said:
Because to encourage a child to take their own life is wrong. If a court of law established that a mother had groomed a child into taking their own life, the defence position could only be The mother wanted them to have guarenteed salvation, your honour.'
I think an insanity plea would be entered on the mother's behalf and would probably be accepted particulary if the mother in question was known to hold strong religious convictions. But the insanity argument is valid if this is the case. The mother is clearly insane because she does not know the truth about her own religion, nor does she uphold the law by grooming a child to take their own life. The mother is in fact putting God to the test but using her child as the thing with which to test God. I have no doubt that a child groomed under these circumstances would indeed receive everlasting life because they have 'Obeyed their parents.', however the mother would be required to repent or she would spend the rest of her life in a mental institution.
Life on Earth is as precious as life anywhere. If one accepts salvation then death is not an end because death has no power to hold your 'self' in the grave. Death can claim your flesh but not your 'self', the self, the 'I am' belongs to God who made it. Indeed God promises that if you keep his commandments, you will live a long time in the land. Why damn ourselves to save our children when Jesus has already said the words 'It is done'.?
peace
c20
I have been thinking what i would do if i 100% believed in god and an afterlife.
Well i know how i am morally without this belief, i would not kill anyone or harm anything if i can help it because no one should take away the right to live, because after you die there is nothing,plus you are taking someones member of the family/loved one away BAD BAD BAD, i'll never do it.
However if i believed in an afterlife and god i would decide that it would be best to go there to heaven straight away, but i'd want everyone to go, so i figure that to ensure all the innocents go to heaven i would eliminate EVERY human being on the planet, i would make it my lifes work to ensure i gain enough power to eliminate everyone.
Nobody will miss nobody because they are all dead and all in heaven.
If god will not let this happen, let him form a miracle to prevent it, if he cannot/ does not then we must assume it is gods will for me to exterminate everyone.
I am willing to sacrifice myself for eternal damnation to save others from the same fate, as i probably would have gone there anyway it is no real loss.
So far i have never been given the keys to unlock my brain, i cannot feel,see hear or sense a god/gods or afterlife, nothing has ever EVER made me believe in god, even when i was as young as 4 years old even if i could not properly understand it.
In fact i might have atheist written in my DNA, because i cannot remember a time when i ever for one second actually truly believed in an afterlife/immortality or god.
Well i know how i am morally without this belief, i would not kill anyone or harm anything if i can help it because no one should take away the right to live, because after you die there is nothing,plus you are taking someones member of the family/loved one away BAD BAD BAD, i'll never do it.
However if i believed in an afterlife and god i would decide that it would be best to go there to heaven straight away, but i'd want everyone to go, so i figure that to ensure all the innocents go to heaven i would eliminate EVERY human being on the planet, i would make it my lifes work to ensure i gain enough power to eliminate everyone.
Nobody will miss nobody because they are all dead and all in heaven.
If god will not let this happen, let him form a miracle to prevent it, if he cannot/ does not then we must assume it is gods will for me to exterminate everyone.
I am willing to sacrifice myself for eternal damnation to save others from the same fate, as i probably would have gone there anyway it is no real loss.
So far i have never been given the keys to unlock my brain, i cannot feel,see hear or sense a god/gods or afterlife, nothing has ever EVER made me believe in god, even when i was as young as 4 years old even if i could not properly understand it.
In fact i might have atheist written in my DNA, because i cannot remember a time when i ever for one second actually truly believed in an afterlife/immortality or god.
GodlessEvil said:
But if you believed in God, you would know God and you would be humbled through your understanding. No longer would you feel a need to do anything because you would see that the best you could have done for yourself was to get to a place where you were open to God personally. You might feel a need to share your beliefs so that others may begin to question and maybe in their questioning, find the same solution that you did, but to go around killing people because this will guarentee that they get into heaven (in your view), is to deny who has the power in the first place.
Will God prevent you from killing? No. But I am convinced you will be held to account for your actions.
You cannot please God without faith. You have to believe that He wants to make himself known to you. If you have divorced yourself from the possibility, then it is you that is preventing the encounter. God doesn't want you to be a puppet. He wants you to come to Him of your own accord. We dont of course go to Him of our own accord until we run out of track usually. Our own pride resists the very concept that there may be something much much much more powerful than us out there because whilst we have everything we need, we dont perceive that we need any help. We are alright thanks. Maybe some people see the futility of this before they run out of track but I bet it is not many.
peace
c20
No, if i believed in god for some bizarre reason...i KNOW i could *potentially* be a very dangerous individual.
Sometimes you have to accept that some people are better off without religion because they will be dangerous.
If you are correct in what you say, how do you account for muslim extremists, they believe in god, it might not exactly be your god but it amounts to the same thing, their faith leads them to kill.
Me+religion=dangerous.
Sometimes you have to accept that some people are better off without religion because they will be dangerous.
If you are correct in what you say, how do you account for muslim extremists, they believe in god, it might not exactly be your god but it amounts to the same thing, their faith leads them to kill.
Me+religion=dangerous.
to procreate, to pass on the human seed, it's as simple as that we after all are just another animal.All.For.One said:
atheism is not a religion, and it's yours and other religions who fight against each other, we just watch from a sensible possition.All.For.One said:
oh theres a purpose, you've been misinformed, about atheism, we know this is the only chance, therefore we have more respect for life,and our fellow man.All.For.One said:
we dont have any beliefs to stick out for, we dont waste time cowering to a imaginary sky daddy.All.For.One said:
it's not something we really concern ourselves with, we know, it's inevitable, so why worry or think about it.All.For.One said:
why would you possibly think that? and how could you possibly know that?, please elaborate?, thank you, (provide references).All.For.One said:
as is mine and mine is morally superior, to yours and your gods.All.For.One said:
if true then thats nice of you, however reality say the opposite, religious people do not like each other, each thinks his god is the right one, so they kill each other over it, but unfortunately they kill a lot of sensible people in the process.All.For.One said:
so the faith you have now is different to the one you where indoctrinated with? what have you change from and to?.All.For.One said:
we already know this, thats why theres wars.All.For.One said:
as are mental institutionsAll.For.One said:
GodlessEvil said:
The only reason religion becomes dangerous to others is when your understanding of it becomes out of sync with the truth behind it. If your understanding has become out of sync it is because you have fallen to a deception (and there are many).
But to say 'do away with religion', 'religion is dangerous because there is a possibility of corruption', whilst perfectly understandable as a view point, would be a cowardly approach to take for one who holds tight to the truth and is not tempted into those deceptions.
peace
c20
This is a silly topic which shows how typically hard it is for theists to understand anything.
I don't deny the existence of a creator, but I protest over religion and the harm it is doing to the world and to peoples intelligence in general.
I don't feel the need to go through my life pretending that there is a divine supernatural purpose to my life. When I am on my death bed, I will be prepared in the exact way any person should. I am aware of my own mortality the same as any theist, but the difference is I do not pretend that I am going to heaven or hell, so I will be as best prepared as possible when on my death bed to go where I came from - non-existence.
I don't deny the existence of a creator, but I protest over religion and the harm it is doing to the world and to peoples intelligence in general.
I don't feel the need to go through my life pretending that there is a divine supernatural purpose to my life. When I am on my death bed, I will be prepared in the exact way any person should. I am aware of my own mortality the same as any theist, but the difference is I do not pretend that I am going to heaven or hell, so I will be as best prepared as possible when on my death bed to go where I came from - non-existence.
There is no point. You have internalized that things need to have a point, but they don't. You can make up your own if you like. Reality is a canvas with infinite possibilities, why limit yourself to one ideology?All.For.One said:
The little child that laughed at her grandmother's body was smarter than you. Her grandmother had not left the earth at all. In fact she was manifested right there in her grandaughter.
But many theists have normal intelligence, it does not make sense how you can have two people of the same intelligence with completely different belief systems.
An atheists brain must be different to a christians, even if the intelligence and knowledge is the same.
You cannot know you are insane, if i believe i'm spiderman you will not convince me otherwise.
You'll keep telling me "look you cannot fire webs out of your wrist!"
i'll say something like "but where do you think spider webs come from?"
"spiders?"
"no im spiderman i make the webs"
It's like a syntax error or something.
An atheists brain must be different to a christians, even if the intelligence and knowledge is the same.
You cannot know you are insane, if i believe i'm spiderman you will not convince me otherwise.
You'll keep telling me "look you cannot fire webs out of your wrist!"
i'll say something like "but where do you think spider webs come from?"
"spiders?"
"no im spiderman i make the webs"
It's like a syntax error or something.