Signs of the Last Hour

[Proud_Muslim]

Proud_Muslim:

Again, you have completely failed to address the questions I asked. Here they are again:

1. Can you provide ONE source saying the sea level will rise if the ice at the NORTH POLE melts?
2. Can you name ONE reputable space scientist who says the sun will rise in the west at some time in the future? (You will need to quote the source of the statement.)

Let's look at your most recent rants.
There is no mention of the words "NORTH POLE" in any of this. There is no reference to arctic ice at all. Hence, this is all irrelevant waffling aimed at avoiding the issue. Again.

MAN !! you are unbelievable, GREENLAND IS BESIDE THE NORTH POLE !! YOU SHOULD GO AND LEARN SOME GEOGRAPHY, DONT BE LIKE YOUR PRESIDENT WHO ONCES REFERED TO AFRICA AS A STATE !!

This has no quote from any reputable space scientist about the sun rising in the west. More irrelevant waffle.

You see, the reputable space scientist was provided with PICTURE, here it is again:

John A. Wheeler, Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole, Wheeler's thoughts encompass the entire cosmos from the Big Bang to the Big Crunch.

Albert Einstein, Hidekei Yukawa and John A. Wheeler at Princeton in 1954. Yukawa received the Nobel prize in physics in 1949

Then you should be able to provide at least ONE source which says so.
Try again, Proud_Muslim. Come back to me if you find any answers.

Sure, I will keep posting the EVIDENCE until you grasp it, SURELY, YOU ARE TO ASHAMED TO ADMIT YOUR IGNORANCE !!!

Scientists who want to monitor the state of our global climate may have to look no farther than the coastal ice that surrounds the Earth's largest island.

A NASA study of Greenland's ice sheet reveals that it is rapidly thinning. In an article published in the July 21 issue of Science, Bill Krabill, project scientist at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, VA, reports that the frozen area around Greenland is thinning, in some places, at a rate of more than three feet per year. Any change is important since a smaller ice sheet could result in higher sea levels."

A conservative estimate, based on our data, indicates a net loss of approximately 51 cubic kilometers of ice per year from the entire ice sheet, sufficient to raise global sea level by 0.005 inches per year, or approximately seven percent of the observed rise," Krabill said

Source : http://www.solcomhouse.com/PolarIce.htm

ENJOY JAMES !! I am expecting you to ask again for the evidence, sure, I will keep posting it again and again until you finally ADMIT your mistake.

 

[Quantum Quack]

PM you obviously fail to see the difference between the North Pole and Greenland.
These places are entirely different places. Maybe you feel that just because greenland is next to or near the Noth polar Ice that you can make the quantum leap and call them the same thing.

Ok....fine this is your perogative. But if you want to ask a specific question or state a specific fact then you have to be specific and not change the context to suit later on.

It is also worth noting that as with all predictions there is room for error.

The big word in all this is the word " IF "

 

[everneo]

MAN !! you are unbelievable, GREENLAND IS BESIDE THE NORTH POLE !! YOU SHOULD GO AND LEARN SOME GEOGRAPHY, DONT BE LIKE YOUR PRESIDENT WHO ONCES REFERED TO AFRICA AS A STATE !!

So is africa besides america. President is a president no matter whether he is in US or in Australia. You are always right, moron.

John A. Wheeler, Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole

Who is the father of North Pole.? You only know that .. ahhh.

 

[Quantum Quack]

"Who is the father of North Pole.? You only know that .. ahhh."

jiggle bells jingle bells jingle all the way.......can I....can I please please......hmmmmm Santa Claus.

am I right am I right......( pant pant )

 

[Preacher_X]

Preacher X:

It is too late to change the topic now.

Look back at the original argument. Proud_Muslim claimed that if ice at the NORTH POLE melted, sea levels would rise. I told him they would not. You then chimed in to agree with PM about ice melting at the north pole.

Now, haveing made yourself look like an idiot, instead of admitting you were wrong, you're trying to distract attention from your mistake by talking about global warming in general.

Nobody is fooled by your tactics, Preacher X. Maybe when you are a bit older, you will develop the maturity to admit your mistakes. I guess I'm not going to see an admission from you here, am I? You don't have the intellectual integrity.

and you didnt get it either. the ice from the north pole does not melt in the north pole and turn to water. the ice FROM the NORTH POLE melts slighly and breaks AWAY from the main sttucture of the North Pole, thats where ice burgs come from, there floating away from the poles.

 

[Preacher_X]

and when they get to these hotter climates the start to melt

 

[Thersites]

John A. Wheeler, Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole, Wheeler's thoughts encompass the entire cosmos from the Big Bang to the Big Crunch.

You cited Wheeler as producing evidence that the sun would one day rise in the west. Where did Wheeler say this?

 

[Thersites]

and you didnt get it either. the ice from the north pole does not melt in the north pole and turn to water. the ice FROM the NORTH POLE melts slighly and breaks AWAY from the main sttucture of the North Pole, thats where ice burgs come from, there floating away from the poles.

...And makes no difference to the sea level.

 

[atheroy]

Oh man. The ignorance of Preacher X and PM is overwhelming. I wish there was a rule in these forums that only people who know what they are talking about are allowed to post. PM is to proud to admit he was completely ignorant when arguing with me about earthquakes and both him and Preacher X lack even the basic knowledge of physics that would've seen them shut their traps well over 4 pages ago on several threads now. Is there no way we can moderate this stupidity? The discussions have suffered because of it. That and the useless "my religion is better than your religion" threads that PM and Preacher X keep starting.

To both of you ignoramuses. Grow Up.

 

[Quantum Quack]

so.......guys, what does this thread tell us about the most important problem facing the world today?

It says:

Ignorance due to a lack of education, because of religious censorship and lack of motivated funding.

What will cause the end of the world?

Ignorance, apathy, caused by a lack of education, because of religious censorship and lack of motivated funding.

What will save the world?

Education and applied learning ( reduction in apathy)

All the BS in this thread just screams out at you and says.....that ignorance is incredibly dangerous.

Just my thoughts and I know most of the readers agree....

your thoughts about how to avoid end times ( the real version) would be appreciated.

 

[James R]

Proud_Muslim:

As an academic, I find few things more annoying than wilful deception, and you have provided yet another example of that by your selective editing of your sources. More than that, you continue to lie and avoid the questions I have asked.

GREENLAND IS BESIDE THE NORTH POLE !! YOU SHOULD GO AND LEARN SOME GEOGRAPHY, DONT BE LIKE YOUR PRESIDENT WHO ONCES REFERED TO AFRICA AS A STATE !!

Some points you might like to take on board:

1. I know Greenland is near the North pole. That is irrelevant.
2. I probably have a better grasp of geography than you do.
3. I don't have a President, so I don't know what you're talking about.

You see, the reputable space scientist was provided with PICTURE, here it is again:

John A. Wheeler, Scientist-philosopher, teacher-cosmologist, father of the Black Hole, Wheeler's thoughts encompass the entire cosmos from the Big Bang to the Big Crunch.

Wheeler has never, anywhere, said that the sun will ever rise in the west. So, quit referring to him as if he somehow supports your argument.

Scientists who want to monitor the state of our global climate may have to look no farther than the coastal ice that surrounds the Earth's largest island.

A NASA study of Greenland's ice sheet reveals that it is rapidly thinning. In an article published in the July 21 issue of Science, Bill Krabill, project scientist at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, VA, reports that the frozen area around Greenland is thinning, in some places, at a rate of more than three feet per year. Any change is important since a smaller ice sheet could result in higher sea levels."

A conservative estimate, based on our data, indicates a net loss of approximately 51 cubic kilometers of ice per year from the entire ice sheet, sufficient to raise global sea level by 0.005 inches per year, or approximately seven percent of the observed rise," Krabill said

Source : http://www.solcomhouse.com/PolarIce.htm

Now, let's read the parts of that source you convenient left out. I've put the relevant parts in bold.

"This amount of sea level rise does not threaten coastal regions, but these results provide evidence that the margins of the ice sheet are in a process of change," Krabill said. "The thinning cannot be accounted for by increased melting alone. It appears that ice must be flowing more quickly into the sea through glaciers."

Let me translate for you. Krabill is saying that ice is flowing off the land of Greenland into the sea. He is not talking about North Pole sea ice here, but ice which is on land - Greenland.

Your source goes on to make this even clearer:

Greenland covers 840,000 square miles and 85 percent of the island is covered by ice, some of which is up to two miles thick. With its southern tip protruding into temperate latitudes, monitoring this portion of the ice sheet may be one of the best ways to measure changes in our climate, at least in the Northern Hemisphere.

Note again that the "ice sheet" you keep talking about sits on top of Greenland.

Another quote follows:

"For the first time, we are seeing evidence that one of the two great ice bodies on the Earth (the other is the Antarctic ice sheet) is contributing, in a modest fashion, to observed sea level rise," said Dr. Ghassem Asrar

Again, note that both of these ice sheets sit on land.
---

So, having dismissed your John Wheeler and Greenland arguments, would you like to try again, Proud_Muslim? Here are the questions:

1. Can you provide ONE source saying the sea level will rise if the ice at the NORTH POLE melts?
2. Can you name ONE reputable space scientist who says the sun will rise in the west at some time in the future? (You will need to quote the source of the statement.)

Do you give up yet, or do you want to continue this little game?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

So is africa besides america. President is a president no matter whether he is in US or in Australia. You are always right, moron.

So you agree with your Moron president about Africa being one state ?

I dont understand how the American people can elect such MORON ?

Who is the father of North Pole.? You only know that .. ahhh.

How much have you been drinking before writing this post ?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

You cited Wheeler as producing evidence that the sun would one day rise in the west. Where did Wheeler say this?

Go to page 3 of this thread to see the full evidence.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Scientists who want to monitor the state of our global climate may have to look no farther than the coastal ice that surrounds the Earth's largest island.

I am staggered and amazed that for some reason greenland is deemed to be the worlds largest island.

Hey maybe we aussies need to get the ole boot out again......and give the author a kick up the arse.

I was under the mistaken impression that Australia was the worlds biggest island. And it certainly aint surrounded by ice....mate!!!!

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Proud_Muslim:

As an academic, I find few things more annoying than wilful deception, and you have provided yet another example of that by your selective editing of your sources. More than that, you continue to lie and avoid the questions I have asked.

Look at this statement: SELECTIVE EDITING OF YOUR SOURCES !!! amazing !! you are an amazing man James !! you can never ever admit you were WRONG.

Some points you might like to take on board:

1. I know Greenland is near the North pole. That is irrelevant.

It is NOT irrelevant, it is at the heart of our discussion, raising water levels there means the ICE in the northern pole is MELTING becuase Greenland is on the border with the Northern Pole.

2. I probably have a better grasp of geography than you do.

I dont think so, when I was 4, I memorized the capitals of 140 country with their locations, DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

3. I don't have a President, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Arent you an American ? or are you too ashamed from George W Bush ?

Wheeler has never, anywhere, said that the sun will ever rise in the west. So, quit referring to him as if he somehow supports your argument.

AMAZING !!!!!!!!! REALLY AMAZING !!

COSMIC SEARCH MAGAZINE:

Cosmic Search Vol. 1 No. 4

FORUM: John A. Wheeler
From the Big Bang to the Big Crunch

http://www.bigear.org/vol1no4/wheeler.htm

Perhaps you should get some basics about the big bang theory and the big crunch theory !!

Now, let's read the parts of that source you convenient left out. I've put the relevant parts in bold.

Why you dont read the parts of that source you CONVENIENT LEFT OUT ?

Let me translate for you. Krabill is saying that ice is flowing off the land of Greenland into the sea. He is not talking about North Pole sea ice here, but ice which is on land - Greenland.

here is the part you DELIBERATELY MISSED:

''Bill Krabill, project scientist at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, VA, reports that the frozen area around Greenland is thinning, in some places, at a rate of more than three feet per year. Any change is important since a smaller ice sheet could result in higher sea levels.''

Note again that the "ice sheet" you keep talking about sits on top of Greenland.
Another quote follows:
Again, note that both of these ice sheets sit on land.

---

AMAZING !! James chose to ignore the fact that Greenland ice is PART OF THE NORTHERN POLE ICE :

The real question: "Is polar ice melting faster than new ice is being added?"

This is the question that scientists by studying the Earth's largest ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland. One of the largest such studies is the on-going West Antarctic Ice Sheet Initiative

''If all of these two ice sheets melted sea levels would rise by about 215 feet all over the world.''

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/coldscience/aice0.htm

HERE IS SOME BASICS FOR YOU JAMES TO READ:

Answers to sea level rise locked in ice

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/coldscience/aiceshet.htm

AND HERE IS THE KILLING EVIDENCE THAT JAMES AND OTHERS HERE CANT AND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUTE:

Estimated Present-Day Area* and Volume* of Glaciers
and Maximum Sea Level Rise Potential
From: Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World
Chapter A: Introduction (U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386-A)
Editors: Richard S. Williams, Jr., and Jane G. Ferrigno

Maximum sea
Geographic Area Percent Volume Percent level rise
region (km2) (km3) potential (m)**
----------------
Ice caps, ice 680,000A 4.24 180,000A 0.55 0.45***
fields, valley
glaciers, etc.

Greenland AREA: Percent Volume Maximum ses leve rise
(Inland Ice) 1,736,095B 10.82 2,600,000B 7.90 6.50
Local ice 48,599B 0.30 20,000B 0.06 0.05
caps and
other
glaciers


Antarctic 13,586,400C 84.64 30,109,800C 91.49 73.44****



East Antarctica 10,153,170 26,039,200 64.80


West Antarctica 1,918,170 3,262,000 8.06


Antarctic 446,690 227,100 0.46
Peninsula

Ross Ice Shelf 536,070 229,600 0.01


Ronne-Filchner 532,200 351,900 0.11
ice sheves
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals 16,051,094 100.00 32,909,800 100.00 80.44


* Modified from Table 1 in Swithinbank (1985).

** Sea level rise potential (in meters) [defined as the maximum sea level rise
expected if all glacier ice were to melt in a specified geographic region
based on a density of 0.9 for glacier ice (Robin, 1967), an ocean area of
362X106km2 (National Geographic Society, 1996) and 400 km3 of glacier ice
melted to raise sea level 1mm]. The volume of glacier ice in the Greenland
and Antarctic ice sheets that is below sea level must be subtracted from
the total volume to give an accurate projection of maximum sea level rise
potential; the final version (e.g., publication of Chapter 1386-A) of this
table will include that correction.

*** Meier and Bahr (1996) estimated the total number of glaciers (outside Antarctica and Greenland)
at 160,000.

**** The total volume of glacier ice in Antarctica is 30,109,800 km3. For
the calculation of sea level rise potential, only the grounded-ice volume
of 29,377,800 km3 was used. The total grounded ice volume includes 25,921,700 km3
for East Antarctica, 3,222,700 km3 for West Antarctic, and 183,700 km3
for the Antarctic Peninsula. The volume of ice rises on the Ross Ice Shelf and
the Ronne-Filchner ice shelves are 5,100 km3 and 44,600 km3, respectively.

A Source for area and volume: Untersteiner (1975)
B Source for area and volume: Holtzscherer and Bauer (1954) and Weidick (1995)
C Source for area and volume: Drewry (1983)

Source : http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs133-99//gl_vol.html

JAMES !!!!!!!!!! THE ABOVE IS YET ANOTHER DAMMING EVIDENCE.......YOUR TIME IS UP !! RAISE THE WHITE FLAG AND SAY I AM SORRY, I WAS WRONG !

So, having dismissed your John Wheeler and Greenland arguments, would you like to try again, Proud_Muslim? Here are the questions:

You did not dismiss anything, you were DEFEATED but too ashamed to admit your mistake.

 

[James R]

Proud_Muslim:

Surely you can't really be as stupid as you make out.

It is NOT irrelevant, it is at the heart of our discussion, raising water levels there means the ICE in the northern pole is MELTING becuase Greenland is on the border with the Northern Pole.

I did not ask about ice at Greenland. Read the question again. You started off talking about ice at the NORTH POLE. Don't try to change the subject.

Arent you an American ? or are you too ashamed from George W Bush ?

I'm not one of Dubya's biggest fans, I must admit. And no, I'm not an American, either. It has only taken you about a year to even ask that question. Congratulations on getting this far.

COSMIC SEARCH MAGAZINE:

Cosmic Search Vol. 1 No. 4

FORUM: John A. Wheeler
From the Big Bang to the Big Crunch

http://www.bigear.org/vol1no4/wheeler.htm

No part of that source refers to the sun rising in the west.

Try again.

here is the part you DELIBERATELY MISSED:

''Bill Krabill, project scientist at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, VA, reports that the frozen area around Greenland is thinning, in some places, at a rate of more than three feet per year. Any change is important since a smaller ice sheet could result in higher sea levels.''

I have no argument with that. He is talking about the ice sheet which sits on top of Greenland, as I said before. And, yes, it does extend around the edges of the land, too.

But my question, and your original statement, was not about Greenland. You talked about ice at the NORTH POLE.

Try again.

AMAZING !! James chose to ignore the fact that Greenland ice is PART OF THE NORTHERN POLE ICE

That is false.

The real question: "Is polar ice melting faster than new ice is being added?"

This is the question that scientists by studying the Earth's largest ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland. One of the largest such studies is the on-going West Antarctic Ice Sheet Initiative

''If all of these two ice sheets melted sea levels would rise by about 215 feet all over the world.''

[snipped all of the following irrelevant quotes]

Irrelevant.

1. Can you provide ONE source saying the sea level will rise if the ice at the NORTH POLE melts?
2. Can you name ONE reputable space scientist who says the sun will rise in the west at some time in the future? (You will need to quote the source of the statement.)

Try again, or admit you were wrong, Proud_Muslim.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Try again !! that is false !! Irrelevant !!! this is what James used in answering my post !!!

AMAZING !!

 

[atheroy]

James, Proud Muslim is a fucking retard. I'm sorry to use such strong language but this is definately a case where it's needed. Hope you can get him to admit he was wrong, he's gonna be feeling mighty sheepish if he ever finds a scrap of humility floating somewhere in all that arrogance of his.

I'll call you out on that capitals of countries thing PM, you didn't even know what tectonic plates were and I assume you're at least over the age of 20 (though that means you are very poorly educated and are lacking a great deal of general knowledge). It seems to me your technique is copy off the net and paste without understanding properly what you are pasting. James has you beat, it's just a matter of you opening your eyes a little wider so they aren't shut and admitting you are wrong.

 

[Bells]

PM

PM, please tell me that you are aware that water expands when it freezes, meaning that it takes up more space than liquified water? And that when ice sits on water (as in the North Pole which is in effect floating ice), it takes up more room than if it was water in a liquified form? So if the ice of the North Pole (which is floating ice on the ocean) were to melt, it would not raise sea levels. The opposite goes for ice on land. If ice is on land (as in Antarctica and Greenland) and that ice melts, then THAT would raise water levels as it would run down into the ocean, thereby raising the levels of the ocean.

Please tell me that you know this PM. This is basic knowledge PM. Real basic. Ten year olds know this PM.

 

[everneo]

Try again !! that is false !! Irrelevant !!! this is what James used in answering my post !!!

AMAZING !!

AMAZING !! James still does not see thro' your dirty trick of putting him on the defence.

His answers should have been :

Stupid !! Moronic Arrogancy !! Idiotic Nonsense !! Insane !! Talk some sense !!