Uh. Please explain:
How does ascertaining motive affect the punishment?
Do those who claim they had religious motivation get harsher sentences than those who don't?
Moving the goal post to try to fit in punishment, Wynn?
Who said anything about punishment? This thread is about what an motivates an individual to act, remember?
You are violently imposing it on me.
I am violently imposing
your own argument on
you?
Running out of straws to clutch?
Not acknowledging and facing the problems of aging, illness and death, in their various forms, is immature.
Refusal to be comforted and refusal to move on with one's life is immature.
This is the sometimes hard truth of life on earth: we have to move on. Blame and grief eventually do not help us. They may be necessary for some time, but eventually, one must move on, as the blame and grief become counterproductive.
Which really speaks nothing about what motivates one individual to be violent, does it? You are the one who asked if it would bring comfort to them.
Really Wynn, you can do better than
this..
Does it make any difference to you whether a perpetrator justifies his crime by claiming it was "religiously motivated" or whether he claims he "did it because he was poor" or that he "did it because he was angry"?
Nope.
It does not, however, make his motivation any less valid to him. If someone says they were motivated by their religious beliefs to commit a crime, it is not for me to say 'well you're wrong! You must be motivated by something else', and then tick off as many boxes as I can because I am selfish and self-serving.
After all, if there is no such thing as religious motivation (bad or good), it would mean that all theists and believers are only motivated by greed and are selfish and self-serving.
An exorcism as such may be for religious reasons. An exorcism is intended to drive out the demons and to make the person functional (again).
Using excessive force during an exorcism is malpractice.
Who says it is malpractice?
So, forcing someone to be rid of an evil spirit that has taken up residence in their body, against that demon's wishes and without the individual's consent is not violent to you? Tormenting the individual, even without "excessive force", while performing this exorcism, which as you claim "may be for religious reasons" to make the person functional, according to the religious beliefs of others, and all this done without the consent of the 'victim' or the evil spirit, with some force involved, just so long according to you, it is not excessive, is not violent?
By providing them a service for their benefit.
According to whom?
Who determines that it is for their benefit? The possessed? The religious leaders? How about preachers and Christians who believe homosexuals are possessed and need to be exorcised?
Last June a video of a preacher performing an exorcism on a gay teenager in Bridgeport, Connecticut, appeared on YouTube. In it, the pastor and at least three church members press the boy's stomach—sometimes with their hands, sometimes with a foot, sometimes in a bear hug from behind—until the boy begins to vomit.
[source]
No, that is a rather immature view of it.
For example, the standard advice in Buddhism is that if one sees a ghost during one's meditation, one should dedicate the merit of one's meditation to the ghost, or direct the ghost to someone whom one thinks will be capable of helping the ghost (such as a great teacher or saint).
Religiously motivated or not, Wynn?
How about these, Wynn?
A Romanian nun has died after being bound to a cross, gagged and left alone for three days in a cold room in a convent, Romanian police have said.
Members of the convent in north-east Romania claim Maricica Irina Cornici was possessed and that the crucifixion had been part of an exorcism ritual.
Cornici was found dead on the cross on Wednesday after fellow nuns called an ambulance, according to police.
________________________________________________
Father Daniel who is accused of orchestrating the crime is said to be unrepentant.
"God has performed a miracle for her, finally Irina is delivered from evil," AFP quoted the priest as saying.
"I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this. Exorcism is a common practice in the heart of the Romanian Orthodox church and my methods are not at all unknown to other priests," Father Daniel added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4107524.stm
Mohammed Bashir's 20-year-old daughter, Kousar Bashir, died in June 1991 after enduring systematic beatings during a horrific eight-day ritual after Mr Bashir paid two holy men £200 to rid an "evil spirit" people believed had taken over her body.
Kousar, who had a history of mental illness and had descended into depression after failing her driving test, was diagnosed by holy men Mohammed Bashir (no relation) and Nourani Sayeed as being possessed. They proceeded to beat her to death using a heavy glass ashtray, a walking stick, and Bashir's fists.
Kousar was also starved of food and sleep for eight days, made to eat chilli powder, suffered 17 broken ribs, a broken breastbone and was cut three times between her breasts.
http://menmedia.co.uk/asiannews/news/s/510955_human_torch_dad_devastated_by_daughters_death
He told police on the night of August 22, 2003 that he had been holding a series of special prayer services, described by some as "exorcisms", during the previous three weeks to remove "evil spirits" of autism from the boy. Hemphill described how he would sit or lay on "Junior's" chest for up to two hours at a time, whispering into his ear for the "demons" to leave his body.
Three women -- including the child's mother, Patricia Cooper -- described to police how they sat on the boy's arms and legs while Hemphill sat on his chest. One woman said she pushed down on Junior's diaphragm several times during the service.
At some point during the service, he stopped struggling and breathing.
An autopsy later determined that Cottrell suffocated.
"All he could do was struggle and you interpreted that as demonic," Judge DiMotto told Hemphill. "It was your unreasonable and reckless conduct that caused this child to die."
"The community cannot risk another child being hurt, much less being killed, in a religious ritual," she said.
http://www.mnddc.state.mn.us/news/inclusion-daily/2004/08/082004wiabusecottrell.htm
In a grotesque incident, three educated sons of a UP Power Corporation engineer, along with a cousin, punched, kicked and beat their mother to death with a rod late on Saturday night believing that she had been possessed by the spirit of a dead relative.
The bizarre violence didn't end there. The foursome then tried to "sacrifice" a sister-in-law in an attempt to bring their dead mother back to life. They also beat up and injured their sister, her husband, the husband's father and two sisters, when they tried to intervene. All except their brother-in-law, Rohit Kumar, had to be hospitalized. The gruesome drama lasted from 9pm to 10.30pm.
The eldest of the three brothers, Rohit Gautam, 28, is an engineer in a multinational production unit at Greater Noida. Another brother, Navneet, 26, recently completed his MBA. The youngest, Ashwini, 24, is doing a course in electrical work from a polytechnic. The "exorcism" took place in a respectable, middle class locality in the city.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ghaziabad_3_men_beat_mother_to_death/articleshow/2989248.cms
Religiously motivated violence Wynn? Do you think those who committed these acts were motivated by their religious beliefs to 'drive out the evil spirits'?
