Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
You're right animals should only be killed so that weapons can be tested on their carcasses before they are used to kill subhumans such as Palestinians.
Should we ban the Kosher/Halal method of killing unstunned animals?
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
You're right animals should only be killed so that weapons can be tested on their carcasses before they are used to kill subhumans such as Palestinians.
In my mind it's no different than the way we treat our fellow humans. Think about how the mentally or physically handicapped were treated 2000 years ago. While we may not be able to heal everything, we at least do our best (up to our present ability within the society we create) to make life as good as can be reasonably expected.
Now, imagine if our religious book said we had to kill mentally or physically handicapped humans? Of course this might have made sense 2000 years ago, when resources were scarce - but it certainly doesn't make any sense now. There is no logical reason to kill an animal with more pain, when it can be done with less pain. It's really that simple.
I agree with SAM that we could run the experiments to measure how much pain an animals feels post stun versus post exsanguination, however, it seems rather obvious to me that stunning is much much quicker. So why NOT stun? There's just no rational for not doing it.
Now, imagine if our religious book said we had to kill mentally or physically handicapped humans? Of course this might have made sense 2000 years ago, when resources were scarce - but it certainly doesn't make any sense now. There is no logical reason to kill an animal with more pain, when it can be done with less pain. It's really that simple.
I agree with SAM that we could run the experiments to measure how much pain an animals feels post stun versus post exsanguination, however, it seems rather obvious to me that stunning is much much quicker. So why NOT stun? There's just no rational for not doing it.
If the Gods cared, then they wouldn't have made life in such a way. Think of it this way 786, do you suspect you will have freewill in Heaven? Do you think animals are murdered in this mythical land? If not then you know that a reality can exist in such a way for an animal to live without killing other animals. Ergo the Gods MUST want animals to kill one another. You just don't want to face up to what kind of creature you were raised to venerate.You have a problem really trying to say shit and nothing else?
I never said to continue doing things from the past. What I said was that you saying that 'god doesn't care' is a gross taking things out of historical context. And is a conclusion that can only be made by people like you whose every argument is flawed.
Peace be unto you
The only reason I even mention belief is because it seems the only people on earth that still require animals to die in a ritual designed to appease their Gods are Jews and Muslims. Hell, even the OP I showed some Muslims that were stunning an animal prior to slitting it's throat. WHY on earth would anyone argue NOT to stun an animal? I can only think of two types of people who would make a case for not following a more humane slaughtering method: Accountants and some Theists.
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Opinion noted and discarded.
Kudos to the first, "couldn't care less" to the second.
Eh, true. The show just has a perfected view of the stabby-stabby.
You, sir, are on to something here. Making a meal into an experience.
You're right animals should only be killed so that weapons can be tested on their carcasses before they are used to kill subhumans such as Palestinians.
Wow, that was a pointless veer-off.
Or maybe the throat-slitting is useful practice before attacking Jewish people?
Or maybe we could just not engage in stupid baiting.
My tribe deals with the most humane ways to hunt. Hunting has certain rules. Including that an animal has the right to defend itself.
The animal has the right to be subjected to the least pain possible for the kill.
The animal is a sacrifice, not a sport.
In these modern times, these rules still apply, no matter what equipment is used for the hunt.
The jews weren't the only ones to desire a humane method of animal slaughter. Many cultures have these tenets in many forms.
The animal has the right to be subjected to the least pain possible for the kill.
The animal is a sacrifice, not a sport.
In these modern times, these rules still apply, no matter what equipment is used for the hunt.
The jews weren't the only ones to desire a humane method of animal slaughter. Many cultures have these tenets in many forms.
they use those on pigs, probably sheep, but not cows. Cows' bodies are just too big. It doesn't really kill the pig though. In the field (mobile slaughtering), we used a .22 rifle between the eyes on pigs. I've never slaughtered a sheep.
True. A truthful, correct and good law is inherently understood by all humanity. The Jews merely made it as a mandated law by putting it in writ.
All other ways would render the system imperfect, considering all will die. The animals in fact consume humans - via maggots and then via grass. It is just an organ donor premise, one which does not include any wastage whatsoever, requiring no storage of corpses. Environmentally clean?
Thus there is no merit in not consuming animals, as opposed respecting the animal rights laws.
Not true. God could make anything and it must be, for that God, perfect.
So God also made that we shall die. But note the reverse order:
"I TAKE LIFE AND I GIVE LIFE [Ex].
Crucial Q: I wonder which part refers to the giving - birth or afterlife.
And your point is what?
As I said: GODS can make reality any way they seem fit. There is no need for the consumption of other beings. A God can create a reality where killing is NOT a requirement for death (as is the case now) and life is not dependent on death (as is NOT the case now - for animals). It's really as simple as that. In short: Your God's a douche.
As I said: GODS can make reality any way they seem fit. There is no need for the consumption of other beings. A God can create a reality where killing is NOT a requirement for death (as is the case now) and life is not dependent on death (as is NOT the case now - for animals). It's really as simple as that. In short: Your God's a douche.
That what is stated about animal consumption is seen across the world with all other life forms is vindicated. You are blaming God for the way this operates, claiming it could have been done another way - but your premise is not vindicated in reality. I acknowledge the system is crrect for the mo, despite being a vego myself. That one time there will be no need for this, as stated in Isaiah, makes your premise already superfluous. If you examine any other way [which you have not put forward], you will find a host of other issues which impact. Some have a problem even consuming a baby corn, but it is better that we are eaten by maggots and cows as grass - than any other method I have ever heard. Its not like we live for ever anyway.
Also vindicated is that it is better to observe animal rights laws than be a vegetarian. If a Zebra could speak..etc, etc.
So your rationale is that if the animal is to suffer the extreme excrutiating pain of a stun bolt, never mind a second one if the first one results in unconsciousness [what do they do if the animal retains consciousness or regains it?] , the fact that it is over fast makes it the more rational choice? How fast? Whats the difference in death between stunning [once or more than once] and slitting? How many seconds is the difference? How are we weighing the difference in magnitude of pain?
Its my opinion that methods used to slaughter animals are chosen more for how they appear to humans than how they feel to animals. I bet there isn't a single study comparing the difference in magnitude of suffering between stunning and not stunning, but everyone agrees that its the more humane method.
Here is a thought, how about you get a taser and try out what an electric shock feels like? Its pretty low dose compared to the bolt gun used on animals. Then come back and tell me that the short duration [try it for two seconds] makes the pain more endurable.
Did you see the animal stunned in the first part of video one? It was out in less time than it probably takes to registrar it was even stunned. Animals can be knocked unconscious quicker than they can consciously process the information that they've just be painfully stunned. Pain, again being a precept, take time to be "felt". Perhaps more time than it takes to shut down the brain.
I believe those studies could be and should be done.
I've been knocked out, while I'm sure the blow to my head was severe and painful (car accident) - I didn't "feel" it because I was knocked out so quickly. Later, when I rubbed the top of my head, yeah, pain.
Also, animals react to the smell of blood and also to being confined. If an animal is sticking it's head through a hole for daily feed, I don't think it'd even know what hit it. Standing knee deep in blood, well, I'm sure the animal is pretty stressed.
I believe those studies could be and should be done.
I've been knocked out, while I'm sure the blow to my head was severe and painful (car accident) - I didn't "feel" it because I was knocked out so quickly. Later, when I rubbed the top of my head, yeah, pain.
Also, animals react to the smell of blood and also to being confined. If an animal is sticking it's head through a hole for daily feed, I don't think it'd even know what hit it. Standing knee deep in blood, well, I'm sure the animal is pretty stressed.
Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
Is there any guarantee that everytime an animal is stunned it won't feel excruciating pain. Being knocked out from impact and being knocked via stunning are different methods. An animal should have the right to fight for it's life. In any case the problem in using stunning in halal and kosher method is that the animal will die from the stunning itself which will render it's meat unlawful to eat.
As someone who has actually euthanized animals, I'll take the rapid unconsciousness rendered by a stunner over stabbing an animal in the jugular any day. It would be hard to imagine anyone with experience arguing otherwise; the time to rendering an animal inert with any classical stunner is simply not comparable to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U3hAeD6jq0
Observez la difference entre l'abbatage correct et la forme permis après 1998 a Belgique, lors que l'abattage halal a été permis. The difference in suffering is substantial and shocking. I mean, seriously: the animals are fucking conscious during the procedure. What a stupid fucking argument.