Bowser:
I had lost interest in the thread after it started spinning in circles.
You "lost interest" when the questions started getting too difficult for you, as usual. You're great on the one-line replies and the scattergun attempts to deflect, not so hot on reasoned arguments.
Well, the rape scenario pops up once again. Are we going to stand our arguments on the battered bodies of rape victims, even though they are less than 1% of those who get abortions? I will bite with another question: Should we kill the children of rapists?
Like every other question I've asked you, you have failed to answer this one. I see a pattern. If we're going to have a discussion, we need good faith and honesty on both sides. Can you do that? If so, go back and respond to the posts of mine that you ignored or attempted to deflect.
Rape is relevant here because currently in the United States, like I said, legislatures have passed abortion prohibition laws that explicitly do not exempt pregnancy due to rape. I have asked you directly what your opinion is on the absence of even this exemption. You have ignored or attempted to deflect. Why is that?
Should we kill the children of rapists?
No. Who has suggested that?
I mean, if we ever do recognize the unborn as human life, would we make an exception for those whose father was a rapist?
What are you talking about? Nobody disputes that unborn embryos, foetuses, babies are human life.
Are you saying that you advocate forcing women who have been raped to carry their pregnancies to term? Be honest. Tell me you position on that. And, if you do support that, what's your plan for the children of these unwanted pregnancies after birth? Do you advocated forcing women to rear those children, too? If not, then what?
Because some of us believe the life within the woman is valuable, worth protecting.
At what point does a consideration of the life of the women herself come into your thinking, if at all?
Keep in mind that you trying to control what she does with her own body. What gives you that right, by the way?
But be certain that many men would be happy to take a women to the abortion clinic, not so much for her but for himself.
Consider this radical idea:
A man deciding that a woman should have an abortion is just as bad as a man deciding that a woman should not have an abortion.
What say you about that?
Then we have given up and admitted that it is much more practical to abort a child than raise a child.
More "practical"? What do you mean? Economically, of course abortion is cheaper than raising a child. But nobody is advancing an economic argument for abortion here.
There are a number of proven social benefits to be had by permitting free access to abortion. A society without unwanted children is a better society for everybody, including the children who you say you care so much about.
So, if I could convince a woman not to abort her child--using compassion rather than fear, shame or obstruction--would that be a win/win for everyone?
That all depends. What are you going to do after you finish convincing her? Are you going to help her to raise the child?
You want to insert yourself into her decision-making process, so I assume you will take responsibility for the outcomes you cause. Is that correct?
Everybody here agrees that abortion is the least desirable option, right?
No. I don't agree with that. But you'll need to be specific. What are these options you're referring to, and how are you determining what is most or least desirable? Is this about what the pregnant woman desires, or about what you desire, or something else?
So you think abortion is good?
Making safe abortion accessible to women is undeniably good.
Then you are making it your business. Are you a man and do you have a say in abortion? ....
I am a man and I do believe I have a say in abortion. If any of you are men and disagree with me, just keep quiet, because, you know, you are men and abortion is none of your business.
Let's unpack what this "say" of yours is supposed to entail, exactly.
If you want to say "I don't approve of women having abortions", then you are free to have that say.
If you want to say "I wouldn't have an abortion if I was a woman", then you can say that too, but it makes you look a bit silly, because you really have no idea what you'd do if you were a woman in that situation. It's just an old white guy talking about stuff he doesn't know much about.
If you want to say "I get to choose whether a woman can have an abortion" then that's not a say you have any right to. It's not your body. You don't have any prerogative to control what women do with their own bodies.
When you get pregnant, then you can choose whether or not to have an abortion. It will be your body and your choice. Until then, you have no right to choose.