Should Freedom of Religion include Freedom from Religion?

Goldtop said:
And, like I said, you keep failing to point anything out unless you redefine words to suit your narrative. That's dishonest.
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If you can't even reiterate what others post, your critiques are worthless.
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Musika said:
The standard reasons I imagine : politics, values, etc .... aka, the standard "baggage".
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Do you always make up labels for "baggage"? What about unicorn baggage? Why do you hate unicorns so much?

Musika said:
Yet here you are, publicly discussing issues about religion and God.
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...and unicorns.

Musika said:
The fact that you equate "belief in God" to "social disruption" proves my point.
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I don't equate "belief in God" to "social disruption". It's all that "baggage" that you refer to that constitutes the "social disruption".
 
Seattle said:
Do you always make up labels for "baggage"? What about unicorn baggage? Why do you hate unicorns so much?
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At the very least, given that, outside of the coy tactics of atheists there are no words for people who believe in unicorns as opposed to people who don't believe in unicorns (nor people who aggressively split hairs on the latter to assert it's that they but lack a belief in unicorns), the baggage does seem quite minimal.

I don't equate "belief in God" to "social disruption". It's all that "baggage" that you refer to that constitutes the "social disruption".
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This is what you said :

People who believe in unicorns aren't as disruptive of society as people who believe in God but that's about it.

The fact that there is a, in your view, "social disruption" arising from belief in God is "the baggage". The fact that you even think about it in such a manner, namely that the problem arises from belief in God (as opposed to the problem arising by incorrectly applying the belief of God), is clear evidence that you are also bringing baggage.

Also, your struggle to attribute any sort of "baggage" related to the non/existence of unicorns highlights its irrelevance.

This is what I meant when I said your statement proves my point.
 
Musika said:
At the very least, given that, outside of the coy tactics of atheists there are no words for people who believe in unicorns as opposed to people who don't believe in unicorns (nor people who aggressively split hairs on the latter to assert it's that they but lack a belief in unicorns), the baggage does seem quite minimal.


This is what you said :

People who believe in unicorns aren't as disruptive of society as people who believe in God but that's about it.

The fact that there is a, in your view, "social disruption" arising from belief in God is "the baggage". The fact that you even think about it in such a manner, namely that the problem arises from belief in God (as opposed to the problem arising by incorrectly applying the belief of God), is clear evidence that you are also bringing baggage.

Also, your struggle to attribute any sort of "baggage" related to the non/existence of unicorns highlights its irrelevance.

This is what I meant when I said your statement proves my point.
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"Some people" was implied. If I need to spell that out...OK, I've now done it.

The fact that there is more baggage for God believers than for Unicorn believers just shows that Unicorn believers (in general) are less disruptive in society. In general, Unicorn believers have kept their private beliefs, private.

I think any in depth study would show that Unicorn believers haven't done as much harm to society in the name of their beliefs as have the God believers.
 
Seattle said:
"Some people" was implied. If I need to spell that out...OK, I've now done it.

The fact that there is more baggage for God believers than for Unicorn believers just shows that Unicorn believers (in general) are less disruptive in society. In general, Unicorn believers have kept their private beliefs, private.

I think any in depth study would show that Unicorn believers haven't done as much harm to society in the name of their beliefs as have the God believers.
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In the meantime, I guess we will just have to wait for those in-depth studies.

If you want to invest in social change or influence (for better or worse) you have to invest in baggage (values, ideals, etc). Until such time as unicorn believers break free from the shrouds of their illuminati-like trysts, we have no option other than to interpret their values as none other than a subset coming from coy atheists, since they are the only ones visibly advocating on their behalf.
 
Musika said:
In the meantime, I guess we will just have to wait for those in-depth studies.

If you want to invest in social change or influence (for better or worse) you have to invest in baggage (values, ideals, etc). Until such time as unicorn believers break free from the shrouds of their illuminati-like trysts, we have no option other than to interpret their values as none other than a subset coming from coy atheists, since they are the only ones visibly advocating on their behalf.
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I find that there is a bit more baggage among the flying spaghetti monster believers than among the unicorn group but they are both delusional of course.

Ideals and values don't come from any God however, just like those cookies that were eaten Christmas Eve (spoiler alert)...weren't really eaten by Santa. People did it!.

It's not a sexy as "God did it" but reality isn't always sexy.
 
Seattle said:
I find that there is a bit more baggage among the flying spaghetti monster believers than among the unicorn group but they are both delusional of course.
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I guess if one is struggling to establish the legitimacy of one group that is a proxy for the values of atheism, one can take that as invitation to introduce another ...

Ideals and values don't come from any God however, just like those cookies that were eaten Christmas Eve (spoiler alert)...weren't really eaten by Santa. People did it!.
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As an atheist, one would not expect you to think any differently, but regardless, you are still left with "baggage" , either for or against.

It's not a sexy as "God did it" but reality isn't always sexy.
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If only you genuinely believed that.
 
Musika said:
I guess if one is struggling to establish the legitimacy of one group that is a proxy for the values of atheism, one can take that as invitation to introduce another ...


As an atheist, one would not expect you to think any differently, but regardless, you are still left with "baggage" , either for or against.


If only you genuinely believed that.
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It's that ability that you have to know what I genuinely believe that gives you that direct connection to "God".
 
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