Scientific VS. Religious

[KEITHTI3>l]

There are basically three kinds of people in this world:

• people who belive only in religious terms
• people who believe in scientific terms
• and people who arent really sure which side to choose from

Now for me, I like to think of my self as a compromise (not trying to sound conceded or anything). I say this because I have an open mind. And i like to think both religiously and scientifically. Now im only in highschool but i have alot of 'intelligent' questions in my head. And one thats bein bugging me is a Theory that i myself have thought up. Now scientific people dont believe in demons and heaven and all the religious lingo. And religious people dont believe in evolution, the big bang theory, etc. But with me, I try to think of both oppinions and put them together. And one day i started thinking about possesion (deomonic possesion) and i wondered, What if, when you died, you became a demon. And once you were a demon, you could some how, any how, go back in time and possess yourself! Now your probably wondering,

"What would that benifit?"

Well think about it... past possesions led to levitaion, changes in climate of a certain 'room'...

"Why can't you just possess sumone else?"
Well if you can possess yourself, you already know how you acted in the past so you just act the same way and then you dont have to worry about a preist excersizing you out of yourself.

So Basically you can be able to live your life again but with supernatural powers at hand.

I would like if we can all stay on topic and keep everything serious.
It's somthing that ive been on for a while...

 

[leopold]

And one day i started thinking about possesion (deomonic possesion) and i wondered, What if, when you died, you became a demon.

I would like if we can all stay on topic and keep everything serious.

wow, i don't know where to start. so i won't.

 

[spidergoat]

Where does the scientific part enter the equation? I think I missed that part of your conjecture.

 

[VitalOne]

There are basically three kinds of people in this world:

• people who belive only in religious terms
• people who believe in scientific terms
• and people who arent really sure which side to choose from

Now for me, I like to think of my self as a compromise (not trying to sound conceded or anything). I say this because I have an open mind. And i like to think both religiously and scientifically. Now im only in highschool but i have alot of 'intelligent' questions in my head. And one thats bein bugging me is a Theory that i myself have thought up. Now scientific people dont believe in demons and heaven and all the religious lingo. And religious people dont believe in evolution, the big bang theory, etc. But with me, I try to think of both oppinions and put them together. And one day i started thinking about possesion (deomonic possesion) and i wondered, What if, when you died, you became a demon. And once you were a demon, you could some how, any how, go back in time and possess yourself! Now your probably wondering,

"What would that benifit?"

Well think about it... past possesions led to levitaion, changes in climate of a certain 'room'...

"Why can't you just possess sumone else?"
Well if you can possess yourself, you already know how you acted in the past so you just act the same way and then you dont have to worry about a preist excersizing you out of yourself.

So Basically you can be able to live your life again but with supernatural powers at hand.

I would like if we can all stay on topic and keep everything serious.
It's somthing that ive been on for a while...

Well I don't really understand your question or anything....but here's how I see it:

The Scientific believe only in what science says currently, so in the 1500s the scientific would be saying that the Sun revolves around the Earth until new evidence was gathered, or in the 1950s they would be saying an electron is the smallest particle, etc...their beliefs are ever-changing as the evidence changes.....

The religious believe only in what religious scripture says, so in the 1500s they would believe whatever religious scripture says, and in modern times still they would believe in what religous scripture says, and 1000 years from now they would also still believe in what the scripture says......

I don't really understand where you're getting at with the whole demonic possesion thing, sounds like an Eastern idea (where you take birth as a demon possessing siddhi powers)....

 

[Michael]

I used to tell my buddy he was reincarnated as the lab mice he was experimenting at the time (yes this is "Scientific" experimentation).. .. but that was all a joke, after we die that it.

As to daemon possession - it doesn't happen. After we die we end - period.

 

[VitalOne]

I used to tell my buddy he was reincarnated as the lab mice he was experimenting at the time (yes this is "Scientific" experimentation).. .. but that was all a joke, after we die that it.

As to daemon possession - it doesn't happen. After we die we end - period.

It would be good if you provided evidence of this, instead of just rambling on, when will atheists realize that evidence doesn't CAUSE something to become true...its true regardless...since there's no evidence distinguishing which is true they remain distinct very REAL possibilities...

 

[Kendall]

The world is complicated, life is complicated, there are lots of scientific things that I believe, there are lots of religious things I believe. Another kind I guess.

 

[scorpius]

And religious people dont believe in evolution, the big bang theory, etc.

Pope and the catholic church do actualy believe in evolution!!

and i wondered, What if, when you died, you became a demon.

you cant when you dead you are dead.!

And once you were a demon, you could some how, any how, go back in time and possess yourself

past doesnt exist theres only NOW !

 

[Godless]

How the hell are we suppose to keep this serious?

VO do you have evidence that when one dies they go to heaven or hell? Then STFU!

When we die as far as we know, we die! PERIOD

 

[VitalOne]

How the hell are we suppose to keep this serious?

VO do you have evidence that when one dies they go to heaven or hell? Then STFU!

When we die as far as we know, we die! PERIOD

What do you mean as far as we know? How can I possibly gather evidence that after death there is nothingness or that there is heaven or hell? What evidence do you have that afterdeath there's nothingess? I know you've got nothing, nothing at all, like nothing, I mean nothing....

 

[Michael]

It would be good if you provided evidence of this, instead of just rambling on, when will atheists realize that evidence doesn't CAUSE something to become true...its true regardless...since there's no evidence distinguishing which is true they remain distinct very REAL possibilities...

Anything can remain a possibility. There's a very REAL possibility you are just an algorithm running in some super-God-like-child's happy meal toy he received from his reality's version of Macers and we are simulacra provided to convince you there are other conscious entities interacting with you. Actually we're not conscious at all - just part of this child's game to prod you along. Soon she will grow tired of it and toss it in a convenient multiverse trash bin Bye Bye World.

So, as there are an infinite number of excruciatingly infinitesimally small very REAL possibilities perhaps to better get a grip with the real "reality" would should disregard those that are the least likely - beginning with those that have absolutely no evidence together with extremely high Occam's-like improbability of being real; aka: the demi- semi- supreme- and otherlike-Gods.

Sound good?

Otherwise I worry you'll end up a John Frumian style Cargo Cult leader move to a small island and VitalOne - we would surely miss your presence here.


Michael

 

[VitalOne]

Anything can remain a possibility. There's a very REAL possibility you are just an algorithm running in some super-God-like-child's happy meal toy he received from his reality's version of Macers and we are simulacra provided to convince you there are other conscious entities interacting with you. Actually we're not conscious at all - just part of this child's game to prod you along. Soon she will grow tired of it and toss it in a convenient multiverse trash bin Bye Bye World.

That sounds A LOT like Eastern philosophy.....I mean like A LOT

So, as there are an infinite number of excruciatingly infinitesimally small very REAL possibilities perhaps to better get a grip with the real "reality" would should disregard those that are the least likely - beginning with those that have absolutely no evidence together with extremely high Occam's-like improbability of being real; aka: the demi- semi- supreme- and otherlike-Gods.

Sound good?

Ok, so what you're basically saying is if you don't like the way the many-worlds interpretation sounds, even though there's no experiment evidence distinguishing if its true or not (or if the Copenhagen is true), since currently we are incapable of really gathering evidence, who gives a f*ck, lets just disregard it, because you say its probably not true...

Your whole argument is I say its probably not true..great argument

Otherwise I worry you'll end up a John Frumian style Cargo Cult leader move to a small island and VitalOne - we would surely miss your presence here.


Michael

Why because I think on my own? My father and sister are both atheists....you on other hand just believe blindly whatever current consensus in science is...if it was that shit was sugar you'd be the first to eat it

 

[Michael]

Ok, so what you're basically saying is if you don't like the way the many-worlds interpretation sounds, even though there's no experiment evidence distinguishing if its true or not (or if the Copenhagen is true), since currently we are incapable of really gathering evidence, who gives a f*ck, lets just disregard it, because you say its probably not true...

The Scientific Mewthod is probably the best method to distill what reality is and is not. But, we certainly do not live our lives "according to science". We get up and make decisions about the World created by our sense in our head second after second with little to any thought. So no shit for me thanks!

As for the Multiverse, I'm happy to accept it as a possibility. There are mathematical models that suggest a multiverse (of some sorts) is reasonable.

There are no such models for a divine God like being, especially one as described in ME scripture. There is a lot of evidence that suggest the historic events as described in the Book that describes the God are not true. There are also loguical arugents that show omnscence and omnipotent Gods are logically impossible.

Either way I am happy to discuss a particular topic entertaining any possibility and to live my life day-to-day without a belief in Gods. There is a time and a place for everything....

Michael

 

[VitalOne]

The Scientific Mewthod is probably the best method to distill what reality is and is not. But, we certainly do not live our lives "according to science". We get up and make decisions about the World created by our sense in our head second after second with little to any thought. So no shit for me thanks!

As for the Multiverse, I'm happy to accept it as a possibility. There are mathematical models that suggest a multiverse (of some sorts) is reasonable.

I agree that the scientific method is the greatest thing that happened to science...

You accept the multi-verse theory, but at the sametime when Eastern scriptures state that reality has no independant existence, God is the witness or observer, unborn, causeless, eternal, unchanging, smaller than the smallest particle, the basis of reality, etc....you reject it and say its just an imaginary fantasy....

There are no such models for a divine God like being, especially one as described in ME scripture. There is a lot of evidence that suggest the historic events as described in the Book that describes the God are not true. There are also loguical arugents that show omnscence and omnipotent Gods are logically impossible.

Ok so now you say you base what you consider reality based upon models....Do you realize that reality, the way things really are is probably very different from these models?

 

[Godless]

What do you mean as far as we know? How can I possibly gather evidence that after death there is nothingness or that there is heaven or hell? What evidence do you have that afterdeath there's nothingess? I know you've got nothing, nothing at all, like nothing, I mean nothing....

Yea I do, I've got evidence no one has ever come back from death. Ever. Jesus is non existent, and if he did exist, he's freaking dead, and not coming back! Though you can keep the delusion that he'll be back.

http://godisimaginary.com/i27.htm

However VO I'm not the one making any claims, my only suggestion is you provide evidence of your claims, "life after death" do you have evidence?

No! so why make the damn claim?

My claim that when one dies, theres no such thing as "life after death" is by mere observation. There's only this existence, any other existence is not verifiable by objective observation, empirically no other existence exist other then this one, and to make such a claim, that a realm of existence exist outside of this one, is mere delusional garbage, hence the claim is unsubstantiated by empirical evidence.

 

[Michael]

You accept the multi-verse theory, but at the sametime when Eastern scriptures state that reality has no independant existence, God is the witness or observer, unborn, causeless, eternal, unchanging, smaller than the smallest particle, the basis of reality, etc....you reject it and say its just an imaginary fantasy....

Yes that is my position, while a negative can not be proven, I find no need to postulate an additional variable to reality called "Gods".

I am perfectly happy to entertain the notion that there may be an infinite number of universes called multiverse.

Ok so now you say you base what you consider reality based upon models....Do you realize that reality, the way things really are is probably very different from these models?

Yes, reality may be quite a lot different than how our senses are recreating it in our mind. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile to make an attempt to discern what reality really is.

And on that note, while we can agree reality may be very different than how we preseve it to be - I still maintain that as there is, nor never has been, any evidence for Gods - there then is no need to postulate them into our models of reality. As a matter of fact, as information accrues, we seem to find that the World (as well as our place into it) has come about without any need of Gods at all.


None at all.

Michael

 

[Kendall]

And religious people dont believe in evolution, the big bang theory, etc.

If someone wants to call the creation of the universe "The big bang" then I think I'll pass, sorry! I will read over it before I say anything else.

 

[KEITHTI3>l]

Okay well does anybody here believe in tarot cards? If you do then you might want to here this, when sum1 did a reading on me i asked my question, "Is it possible for a demon to go into the past to possess his own 'alive' self?" And every single card came up on a positive note for me. They all said that it is very posible but the only problem was is that if one were to do so, they would upset somekind of balance. Now i dont know wat kind of balance the cards were talking about but it didnt really sound too good... idk thats what the cards said...

 

[Godless]

Okay well does anybody here believe in tarot cards?

This forum is a SCIENTIFIC forum with a subforum on religion, if you have any evidence hence empirical evidence that such non-sense as "tarot cards" can predict the future, correctly determine an individual's character, determine the past of said individual by the reader, who does not know the subject, then please do present the evidence, if otherwise you just "believe, or feel" this shit to be true, please move on to one of the many, many mystic website/forums on the net who have people who believe this BS such as (tarot cards reading, numerology, scientology, ash reading, coffee reading, magical stones, or what not of mystical bs)

 

[Michael]

Okay well does anybody here believe in tarot cards?

As for me no. As a matter of fact they do not work. In UNI I lived in a share house with a "psychic" among other people. She truly believed in her "powers". In truth she was slightly psychotic - a good dose of Prozac et.al. may have been best for her. When she gave "readings" she could basically make anything mean anything.
I offered to run a few simple scientific tests that could instantaneously prove that she was not being given any information from anywhere outside her own imagination - she didn't take me up on it other than to say my negative energy would "block" her "access" to the neither world.

I found people like her prefer to live in their self-created fantasy world rather than be confronted with their own mundane.

Everyone loves Harry Potter - but after you finish reading the book, put it down man!


So in summary, KEITHTI3>l, tarot cards do not have any special supernatural power nor does their reader nor you. As to your question - I can answer it in one sentence. There is no such thing as Daemons and hence no such thing as Possession.

Michael