Scientific Miracles

[DoctorNO]

I had a friend called Cindy from south Africa, I loved her so much, the only friend I loved that much, she is a Christian but only by name, in somehow she doesn’t believe in god, when ever I remember her I really want to cry,

Dont worry, Im sure the feeling is mutual between you two. Even I feel sympathy for you for being in your situation.

 

[path]

Lucky you ! You are a believer, eternal losers are those who disbelieve !

You see the walls I was refering to Yazan no supreme being would do that.

 

[Raithere]

I did not know you were qualified scientist !!

I never said I was. I am, however, well versed when it comes to this topic and I've yet to see a single scientific reference that states that the primeval Earth lacked iron. I'd be pleased to see a scientific publication if you can find one.

Perhaps you can tell us how sailors used to sail through the oceans in the old times ?

By the stars' apparent position, not by their actual location. Again, of what importance is the stars actual location?

''Alif-Laam-Meem. The Romans have been defeated. In the lowest of the land nearby, and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. Within three to nine yearsand on that day, the Muslims will rejoice (celebrate) with the help of Allah." (Surah ar-Ruum 30:1-5)

I do not find this particular interpretation in any of the following. All the translations I could find interpret it as "near" or "close" rather than lowest and I'd be interested in the grammatical interpretation as well (is it 'low' or 'lower' or 'lowest'):

"[30.3] In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,"
(Translated by M.H. Shakir)

"030.003 In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be
victorious"
Pickthall, Muhammad Marmaduke, 1930

"030.003 In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-"
Ali, Abdullah Yusuf , 1934-37

"Ch.30 V.3 In a nearer land; and they, after the overcoming of them, shall soon overcome."
Daryabadi, Abdul-Majid, 1941-57

I don't find "accuracy" through selective interpretation to be noteworthy in the least.

Sure, here is your reference:

Sorry I should have been more specific. Can your provide a scientific reference please? Meanwhile I will point out a couple of things.
1. Flies do not carry diseases only on one wing and the antibodies only on the other.
2. Dipping a fly in liquid will not inoculate you against disease. Even extrapolating the meaning, I'm skeptical about the use of fly antibodies in humans.

Can you also provide the Quranic reference to this? I can't seem to find this one either.

~Raithere

 

[spuriousmonkey]

2. Dipping a fly in liquid will not inoculate you against disease. Even extrapolating the meaning, I'm skeptical about the use of fly antibodies in humans.

As far as I know flies don't have antibodies.

I will try to find out.

 

[DoctorNO]

I do not find this particular interpretation in any of the following. All the translations I could find interpret it as "near" or "close" rather than lowest and I'd be interested in the grammatical interpretation as well (is it 'low' or 'lower' or 'lowest'):

Get used to it. Islamists like PM are fond of using COMPROMISED WESTERNIZED CONTEMPORARY translations of the quran from some unknown sources.

PM couldnt stand the old, honest and popular translations of Yusufali, Shakir & Pickthal.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

No, insects do not have antibodies

link 1

link2

link 3

do a google search if you want more links.

 

[Igor Trip]

In all ways of explanation, it shows how great is this verse
Wither you like it or not
All chapters in the holy Koran starts with the verse “In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful” which is not numbered since it is there in all chapters (except one where one of them contains two!!!) so the real number of the verse is 25+1(the first verse) =26
Also in another verse Koran says that "We have given you the seven pairs and the Great Quran" 15:87
It separates the first numbered chapter in the holy Koran from the Koran itself
So we must subtract 1 from the number 57. so the number of this chapter is actually 56.
So it is as I said verse / chapter are 26/57

Another explanation is
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/commodity/1089/id171.htm

Like I said Yazan, you cannot trust numerologists, they always cheat, twisting the numbers untill they fit the wanted answers.

 

[spidergoat]

There are things called bacteriophages, discovered by Russian scientists, but to say this was predicted thousands of years ago is quite a stretch.

 

[DoctorNO]

Like I said Yazan, you cannot trust numerologists, they always cheat, twisting the numbers untill they fit the wanted answers.

These numerologists constantly change the rules according to their whims. And the gullible are overawed by the numerical acrobatics & mumbo jumbo.

Is Yazan even aware that without rules any text could be manipulated to produce a numerical 19? Even the word "DoctorNO"

 

[Raithere]

Get used to it. Islamists like PM are fond of using COMPROMISED WESTERNIZED CONTEMPORARY translations of the quran from some unknown sources.

Actually, I find this is pretty typical of any 'prophesy' and not particular to the Quran. Prophetic works are notoriously vague and given to interpretative variations, this allows a prophetic statement to fit a wide variety of events and have a tremendously greater possibility of being "correct". Typically, such interpretation is given after the fact. Whereas a credible prophesy would be succinct, exacting, and not open to interpretation.

There's an author for instance (I cannot remember his name) who has written a book about the 'predictions' of Nostrodamus. With each of the subsequent editions he has changed the interpretations of the 'prophesy' to fit current events. Yet some idiots still buy his book...

No, insects do not have antibodies

Cool. Thanks for the info. Did you find anything about the benefits of dipping the other wing?

~Raithere

 

[Rappaccini]

Are you saying the NON MUSLIM scientists who commented on the scientific miracles of the Quran are actually paid to do so ? I dont think so !!

Do you really think they do it for free?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I never said I was. I am, however, well versed when it comes to this topic and I've yet to see a single scientific reference that states that the primeval Earth lacked iron. I'd be pleased to see a scientific publication if you can find one.

Well, I shall find one for you, no problem.

By the stars' apparent position, not by their actual location. Again, of what importance is the stars actual location?

Oh I see ! so the stars' apparent postion' is very difference from their acutal location, right ???

I do not find this particular interpretation in any of the following. All the translations I could find interpret it as "near" or "close" rather than lowest and I'd be interested in the grammatical interpretation as well (is it 'low' or 'lower' or 'lowest'):

"[30.3] In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,"
(Translated by M.H. Shakir)

"030.003 In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be
victorious"
Pickthall, Muhammad Marmaduke, 1930

"030.003 In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-"
Ali, Abdullah Yusuf , 1934-37

"Ch.30 V.3 In a nearer land; and they, after the overcoming of them, shall soon overcome."
Daryabadi, Abdul-Majid, 1941-57

I don't find "accuracy" through selective interpretation to be noteworthy in the least.

The word in Arabic in the above verse is FI ADNA AL ARD ( in the the lowest of the land ):

فِي أَدْنَى الْأَرْضِ وَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ غَلَبِهِمْ سَيَغْلِبُونَ

The Noble Quran 30:3

Sorry I should have been more specific. Can your provide a scientific reference please? Meanwhile I will point out a couple of things.
1. Flies do not carry diseases only on one wing and the antibodies only on the other.
2. Dipping a fly in liquid will not inoculate you against disease. Even extrapolating the meaning, I'm skeptical about the use of fly antibodies in humans.

Can you also provide the Quranic reference to this? I can't seem to find this one either.

The issue of the fly was not mentiond in the quran but rather in the sunnah ( the sayings of the prophet muhammad (pbuh ) )

As to the scientific evidence, here it is:

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~insects/systems/digestion/plenuryrd.html

http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2000/Jul/hour1_072100.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/tocrender.fcgi?iid=1253

And to connect the above 3 links, here is the main one:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hadiths_of_the_fly.htm

 

[spuriousmonkey]

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~insects/systems/digestion/plenuryrd.html

http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2000/Jul/hour1_072100.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/tocrender.fcgi?iid=1253

And to connect the above 3 links, here is the main one:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hadiths_of_the_fly.htm

Maybe you want to tell us what is in these random first three links?

Your last link is a mish mash of stories.

the only experiment that seems to support the theory is this one:

Dr. Ghyath Hasan al-Ahmad in his book al-Tibb al-Nabawi fi Daw' al-`Ilm al-Hadith ("Prophetic Medicine in the light of Modern Science") (1995 2:188-189) mentions that a Dr. Nabîh Dâ`ish ran an experiment at King `Abd al-`Aziz University in Ryadh in which he created ten bacterial cultures from samples of sterilized fluid into which a fly fell without being immersed; ten more bacterial cultures from samples into which a fly fell and was immersed once; ten more from samples into which the fly was immersed twice; and ten more from samples into which the fly was immersed three times. The results showed that bacterial colonies thrived in the first set but were stunted and depleted in the second, more so in the third, and most in the fourth set.

I don't think this is a reliable reference. Or are you telling me that this book went through peer review?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Btw...an observation on nature is not the same as science.

 

[Raithere]

Oh I see ! so the stars' apparent postion' is very difference from their acutal location, right ???

Try to keep up with the thread PM, that is the very point Yazan was making. "We know that stars are moving so by the time that any group of photons reaches us the star would be in another location than the one it was before but we are going to see the location of which the photons reaching us at the moment have started traveling from."

The word in Arabic in the above verse is FI ADNA AL ARD ( in the the lowest of the land

Can you please explain why you're interpretation is more accurate than the other interpretations I've sited? Regardless, "In the lowest of the land" is not the same as "the lowest land in the Earth" or even "on the lowest land", is it?

The issue of the fly was not mentiond in the quran but rather in the sunnah ( the sayings of the prophet muhammad (pbuh ) )

Okay. So are we discussing the inerrant prophesy of the Sunnah, the Quran, or just Mohammed in general?

As to the scientific evidence, here it is:

I don't see any scientific evidence regarding venom on one wing and antidote on the other.

~Raithere

 

[spuriousmonkey]

I don't see any scientific evidence regarding venom on one wing and antidote on the other.

That is quite true. One would at least expect a control experiment.

I assume that it is not clear that the venome and antidote are always on the same (left or right) wing. Hence we need to cut individual flies in half. Keep track of individuals.

experiment 1. - Only right halfs of a fly. If the venom is always on the right wing we should see some detrimental effect. If the location of the venom is random we will see an even split between detrimental and no effect. If the venom is on the left wing we see no effect. Now repeat the same with the left wing to make sure of the results.

experiment 2. We have now established the location of the venom (if it is there at all! We haven't established the nature of it or any other properties). If the venom distribution is always on for instance the right we do the following experiment.

We incubate right wings alone. -expected a detrimental effect

we incubate right wings with left wings - expect a resque

we incubate left wings alone - expect nothing

we incubate left wings and then right wings - effect ?


If the location of the venom is not random we have to devise some more experiments but it is not impossible.

 

[Raithere]

spurious,

Don't forget the biohazard precautions. Fly wing venom sounds like it might be pretty potent stuff. However, I've been looking but I cannot find a single reported cause of death by fly wing venom so perhaps it's not so bad after all.

~Raithere