Compared to Jesus (God), nobody comes close.
Scientific Approach to the Jesus question
- Thread starter Cris
- Start date
"Faith as great as a mustard seed."
That's the last off-topic/spam post you'll be permitted in this forum. Either answer the question or abandon the thread.
What "Belief Index" is he talking about?
Read his post near the bottom of the previous page; ask him if you don't understand.
I answered in saying nobody comes close to Jesus, so the index is bogus.
Do you ever think before you post?
1.) Islam is one of the world's fastest growing religions, in no small part, due to the converts. Many people, raised in other religions (including Christians) copnvert to Islam every year.
2.) Do you think the Muslims in America, Europe, South America, Australia etc do not have "free volition"? Do you have any clue how many Muslim don't live in the "Muslim world"? Do you think these Muslims fear physical harm?
3.) No STIGMA? Most of the places in this country you will be a complete outcast and seen as little more than a devil-worsjipper if you are not Christian - Hell, in some places you will be an "Evil" outcast if you are the wrong denomination of Christianity.
Let me stop now, before I go off the handle on willful ignorance and can't stop myself.
Islam is a political movement as well as a religion, that's why many are joining it, and you overstate the case dramatically about toleration of non Christians in America, so don't worry about going off the handle.
The one on the previous page which either you didn't read, or didn't understand.
You claim that Jesus is "way beyond" everyone in terms of level of faith on the Belief Index.
It does make sense since, as you pointed out, Jesus is actually God himself. So naturally God will have 100% faith in himself.
So IAC, I think it is pretty clear that Jesus would have been "way beyond" or "far above" everyone else in faith.
That aside, it is also very clear that different people have different levels of faith. Otherwise, everyone would have an equal amount of faith which I'm sure you wouldn't agree with.
The real Belief Index would probably look something like this:
100 - Jesus
.01 - Abraham
.009 - Moses
.0007 - The Apostles
.0000000000003 - Most Christians
.000000000000000004 - Ted Haggard
.0000000000000000000000002 - O.J. Simpson
.000000000000000000000000000000000002 - Satanists
The problem with making Jesus the standard of the Index is clear. So instead, we will take Jesus out of the Index and make Abraham the new standard:
The Belief of God Index
100 - Abraham
96.2 - Moses
76 - Peter
74 - Paul
67 - DT (Doubting Thomas)
34 - Judas
18 - Many Muslims, especially ones in America
14 - Most Christians
10 - Many Catholic Priests
4.1 - The Pharisees
.0001 - Satanists
The Belief Index is a way of measuring the level of faith or belief of a given person. If a person has a rating of, say, 25, then that person believes in God and/or Jesus with 25% of that person's maximum ability to believe.
A 25% Belief Ability probably means that this person goes to church on a fairly regular basis, is an overall moral person, but rarely thinks or cares about what a God wants from him/her. This person is out mainly for themselves and will only help others if it doesn't hurt them too much, or if it doesn't interfere with their plans.
So IAC, would you guess that someone below a 30 rating on the Belief Index would have enough belief in their minds to constitute acceptance into heaven?
Not that I necessarily agree, but what is your point?
Please stick to the topic and address what I said.
You said that the Muslim world does not enjoy the luxury of "free volition" and that people do not leave Islam for threat of personal harm.
I'd like to see you back that up.
Not only is the claim simply full of shit, it implies that Muslims know Islam is wrong and they would be Christian (born again, of course) if they were only free to make that decision.
You are wrong.
You're a liar.
People like you are the cause of violence due to religious fanatacism.
Breakdown of Islamic Population by Country and Region
Yes, there are countries in which nearly every person is a Muslim (Afganistan only has two people who are not Muslim, by these numbers) but there are quite a few more countries, including the US, in which people are free to practice any religion they wish - and, in fact, Muslims are the minority, and discriminated against as such - and people still choose to be Muslim, and regularly convert to Islam (and not all for political beliefs).
So, the only people in the world who are not Born Again Christians, according to your logic, are delusional, stupid or forced to not be.
Do you not realize how appalling and disgusting that point of view is?
"I am right, everyone is evil or stupid."
It's vile.
Look in the fucking mirror for once.
Nds1, as I've said a million times, as the Bible says, "you must be born again" by the Spirit, you were born into this world by water (the womb), but now you must be born of the Spirit, born again.
Rave, since Christianity is supposedly nonsense to you, why do you bother yourself with it?
I don't let Atheists bother me, you should be able to do the same.
Rave, since Christianity is supposedly nonsense to you, why do you bother yourself with it?
I don't let Atheists bother me, you should be able to do the same.
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Okay, well I'm assuming someone needs to attain a certain degree of "faith" or "belief" before becoming "born again." Am I right?
Can someone who has a 10% belief in God be born again?
IAC, would't you agree that a certain level of faith must be reached before someone can be "born again"?
You stated earlier that you believe half of the 2.1 billion Christian "adherents" are born again. So only 1 billion Christians are born again. What separates the 1 billion "born again" people from the 1 billion hypocrites? I believe it is the level of their faith. Please give me your opinion.
Q1: Can someone who is not "born again" at the moment of death enter heaven?
Q2: Is being born again the same thing as being "baptized with the Holy Spirit"? Can you have one without the other?
Q3: Are there sins or an amount of sins someone can commit during their lifetime which would ban them from heaven no matter what they or what sacrifices they made later on or no matter how genuine they were in their repentance?
What about Hitler? If Hitler truly repented after everything he did during his life, could he still become born again, or could he still go to heaven?
What about Saddam? We all heard him chanting Allah's name before being executed. Could he be saved?
Can someone who has a 10% belief in God be born again?
IAC, would't you agree that a certain level of faith must be reached before someone can be "born again"?
You stated earlier that you believe half of the 2.1 billion Christian "adherents" are born again. So only 1 billion Christians are born again. What separates the 1 billion "born again" people from the 1 billion hypocrites? I believe it is the level of their faith. Please give me your opinion.
Q1: Can someone who is not "born again" at the moment of death enter heaven?
Q2: Is being born again the same thing as being "baptized with the Holy Spirit"? Can you have one without the other?
Q3: Are there sins or an amount of sins someone can commit during their lifetime which would ban them from heaven no matter what they or what sacrifices they made later on or no matter how genuine they were in their repentance?
What about Hitler? If Hitler truly repented after everything he did during his life, could he still become born again, or could he still go to heaven?
What about Saddam? We all heard him chanting Allah's name before being executed. Could he be saved?
"Faith is a gift from God, lest any man should boast."
The rest of your questions must be disingenuous, as you have displayed a good knowledge about the Bible, so stop playing the ignorant six year old please.
If fact, I'm pretty sure I've answered all of those for you previously.
The rest of your questions must be disingenuous, as you have displayed a good knowledge about the Bible, so stop playing the ignorant six year old please.
If fact, I'm pretty sure I've answered all of those for you previously.
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First of ALL, When did I say Christianity is nonsense to me?
I was talking about certain types of people who think that anyone who disagrees with their view of the world and universe are delusional, stupid and/or evil.
I know plenty of Christians that I respect and even admire. I also know quite a few like you.
I have a problem with any person who's views are repressive at beast, and commonly dangerous.
The arrogant, purposefully ignorant, mentality that your religion is the one and only true religion, and everyone esle has been led astray by an evil force is what caused the Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, Witch Burnings and 9/11 just to name a few.
I bother myself with people like you corrupting and bastardizing the words of a peaceful, open-minded man into serving the puropose of your hate and zealotry, because it is bad for everyone else on the planet, including me.
The bullshit you spout lies squarely in opposition to what Jesus taught, the life he led and the example he left.
You make a travesty of the teachings of a wise man and have the gall to abuse his namesake by calling yourself Christian.
I don't even believe in Abraham's God and I'm more of a Christian than you are.
I'm pretty sure that you're convinced I am going to Hell.
I can guarantee that if you're right, we'll be sharing a cell.
How is my Christianity different from your friends' Christianity?
I never called anybody delusional, stupid, or evil, you did though.
I never called anybody delusional, stupid, or evil, you did though.
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:bawl:
IAC, I seriously do not know the answer the following questions. I am not joking around.
You have these terms in Christianity: Baptized with Water, Baptized with the Holy Spirit, Born Again, Saved, etc. etc.
I'm guessing they go in these orders of progression:
Baptized with Water - 10-20 on the Belief Index (0 Belief with Catholics since they get baptized when infants)
Born Again - 50-70 on the B.I.
Baptized with the Holy Spirit - 70 on the B.I.
My question is, is being born again the same thing as being "baptized with the Holy Spirit"? Can you have one without the other?
Also, can someone become born again, and then go back to being not born again? In another words, how many times can one be born and reborn?
Why don't you read the Bible?
They follow the teachings of Jesus.
You're a hypocrite.
It's fairly simple.
I would quote chapter and verse at you (as I have been known to go on and on) but it is a waste of time, because any point that I make will be completely ignored by you, and you will reply with a simpl five-word response or question that has nothing to do with what I spent my time replying to you with.
The sad part is I don't know if you honestly can't see something so blantantly obvious, or you're lying.
As I already pointed out...
You said that the Muslim world does not enjoy the luxury of "free volition" and that people do not leave Islam for threat of personal harm.
I'd like to see you back that up.
Not only is the claim simply full of shit, it implies that Muslims know Islam is wrong and they would be Christian (born again, of course) if they were only free to make that decision.
Did I?
When?
Please show me.
Why is it that you constantly ignore the questions and comments directed toward you?
Rather than address what is being said and asked, you pick one small piece of what someone said, and try and throw a quip back at them.
I don't understand it.
Is it that you know you have nothing of value to say about the topic at hand, so you think you would be better off trying to change the focus of the conversation or attempt to be witty?
Where did I say Christianity is nonsense?
Are you going to back up what you said about Islam being so large and growing because they are threatened with personal harm if they do so?
As someone else asked you recently, do you know how to have a conversation?
It consists of back and forth observations, comments, questions and answers regarding a subject (or sometimes multiple subjects) in which people express themselves and attept to help the other person understand thier point of view. Sometimes, one person will attempt to sway the opinion of the other. Regardless a conversation is two people exchanging ideas in a logical, somewhat sequential, manner.
Just a tip.