Science Proves Creation
- Thread starter Dunn11x
- Start date
critique yourself. go on. it might be an interesting exercise
as for the pope
he is welcome to troll my little corner of sciforums
lottsa fun to had, ja?
unfortunate.
I know, I know...when I made the thread I forgot to post my explanation that is more scientific. Though I did later, I think on page two or three. But here it is again for those who obviously missed it.
The proof that light can be created from sound when applied upon water that has been made to bubble is evident in Sonoluminescence. Solomuniescense can be made to be stable in that a single bubble will expand and collapse over and over again in a periodic fashion, emitting a burst of light each time it collapses. This can occur when a standing acoustic wave is applied within a liquid, and the bubble, that can be pre-existing or caused by a process known as cavitation, sits at a pressure anti-node of the standing wave. The frequencies of resonance all depend on the size and shape of the container that the bubble is in.
The wave length of the light that is emitted is very short; the spectrum can reach into ultraviolet. Shorter wavelenghts of light have higher energy. The Measuered spectrum of emitted light seems to indicate a tempurature of at least 20,000 kelvins and up to the possible temperature of one megakelvin. It has also been speculated that the inner temperature of the bubble could reach as high as one gigakelvin, which opens the door to thermonuclear fusion. If the temperature in side the bubble is high enough and the pressure is great enough, this could produce fusion reactions in side the bubble that are like that of the sun and other stars. This is sometimes referred to as bubble fusion.
Now the link to Genesis is: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness (which is represented to be water in verse 6 of my Bible) . And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface”; the Spirit of God caused there to be bubbles in the water. “Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” God spoke into the bubbling water causing the waters to expand and collapse over and over again emitting light.
The proof that light can be created from sound when applied upon water that has been made to bubble is evident in Sonoluminescence. Solomuniescense can be made to be stable in that a single bubble will expand and collapse over and over again in a periodic fashion, emitting a burst of light each time it collapses. This can occur when a standing acoustic wave is applied within a liquid, and the bubble, that can be pre-existing or caused by a process known as cavitation, sits at a pressure anti-node of the standing wave. The frequencies of resonance all depend on the size and shape of the container that the bubble is in.
The wave length of the light that is emitted is very short; the spectrum can reach into ultraviolet. Shorter wavelenghts of light have higher energy. The Measuered spectrum of emitted light seems to indicate a tempurature of at least 20,000 kelvins and up to the possible temperature of one megakelvin. It has also been speculated that the inner temperature of the bubble could reach as high as one gigakelvin, which opens the door to thermonuclear fusion. If the temperature in side the bubble is high enough and the pressure is great enough, this could produce fusion reactions in side the bubble that are like that of the sun and other stars. This is sometimes referred to as bubble fusion.
Now the link to Genesis is: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness (which is represented to be water in verse 6 of my Bible) . And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface”; the Spirit of God caused there to be bubbles in the water. “Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” God spoke into the bubbling water causing the waters to expand and collapse over and over again emitting light.
And in the Bible it is made clear that there is different levels of heaven, but one Kingdom of God. So by different levels I mean Space. It has also been speculated that earth in the bible doesn't necessarly always mean this earth, but could mean our solar system as well.
How is this thread still here in General Science after 60 odd posts?
It's the sort of theory that would have been held years ago by some cranky country clergyman with a bee in his bonnet.
It's the sort of theory that would have been held years ago by some cranky country clergyman with a bee in his bonnet.
Funny you should say that.
Look up "Paley" and "Watch"
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Please be more specific. If you're asking me to peer-review my own assertions, that's a job for my peers, which is why it's called peer review. To date, a number of my peers have reviewed them and judged them to be a sound interpretation of SciForums' rules and policies. We are in the process of cleaning up the website and implementing stronger pest control, and I suspect my language may be useful in that regard.
No one is welcome to troll this website. We have the discretion to treat any specific instance of trolling as an interesting exercise in rebutting antiscientific propaganda (as noted below that is what happened on this thread), but that does not open the doors to a full-scale assault from the Forces of Darkness. We want to attract people to SciForums so they can discuss and learn science, not to read an endless and repetitive series of arguments with trolls.
So long after the persecution of Galileo, popes are savvy politicians and friends of science. If the pope wanted to engage us in a debate he would do it in the proper way on the Philosophy boards and impress us both with his debating skills and his ability to conform to our rules without being hampered by them.
If you are asserting that my interpretation of SciForums rules and polices is illogical, then please be a good scientist and substantiate your assertion. Merely saying that you stand as the lone voice of disagreement--not only with me but with the members who have stated their agreement--is more a wistful complaint, not a scholarly argument.
I can't speak for the moderator of GS&T, but I suspect the reason is that it has sparked an interesting discussion. Regardless of the motivation for the original post, it has been taken in the spirit of a very poor scientific theory and it has undergone peer review of sorts. The ensuing process has not been marked by the incessant rule violations that normally accompany posts on evolution denial and other antiscientific crackpottery--no steadfast refusal to adhere to the scientific method, no pressing forward with an argument without substantiating its premises when they have been reasonably challenged, no insistence that everyone on earth accepts this as a scientific fact except us deluded worshippers of authority, no prima facie proof that the troll is ignorant of the basic nature of science by stating that a theory has been "proven."
Nonetheless these crackpot theories continue to recirculate among the millions of people who never heard of them. It's a good exercise to perform a rudimentary peer review and demonstrate to the inquiring young minds who come here how scientists dismiss crackpottery. Learning the method will help them sort through the things they encounter in their own lives.
actually, i think that the ignorance here is vast when you look from the perspective of actual scientific method.
more often than not, the folks you mention that agree with you start with the conclusion, and work their way back to the hypothesis...exactly what you accuse others of doing (not necessarily you personally).
to be honest, i find it disturbing that someone here feels they have the right to tell someone that they arent welcome, just because of a difference in beliefs.
and no, i wont be a "good scientist", as i am not a scientist. i am an event marketing specialist.
Dunn11x:
The weak link here is your last paragraph.
Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.
The weak link here is your last paragraph.
Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.
My thought is where's the proof?
Papaver2005
Registered Member
The problem with Dun11x is that he is trying to take an ancient fable and apply science to it. This is just wrong. Not to even mention that it completely misses the literary beauty and purpose of the story.
It is very apparent to me that you really haven't studied Bereshith (aka Genesis in Greek) in detail. Had you done so, you would realize that 1.1 is the equivalent of a toledoth. It is an introduction to this story and as such tells us what this upcoming section is about, simply, the creation. Note the same type introductions at 2.4, 4.1 and others
1.1 "IN THE beginning G-d created the heaven and the earth."
2.4 "These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that HaShem G-d made earth and heaven. "
4.1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that G-d created man, in the likeness of G-d made He him; "
These introductions (and others that follow in Bereshith) are believed to have been added by the [P]riestly source, who compiled some very old legends/stories in this section.
As another poster noted, there is nothing here about bubbles or the waters of the tehom expanding.
Let's read it and explain what this is REALLY about. You might learn something here.
1.2 "Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the Tehom (Translated as the deep in english) and the wind/spirit of G-d hovered over the face of the waters[of the Tehom]. (this can equally well be rendered as "and the wind of G-d blew (was blowing) over the surface of the waters(of the Tehom).
What is being described here is the primal state of the universe. The earth does not yet exist. All there is at this point is the "Tehom", the watery chaos.
The wind or spirit (Hebrew ruwach, these 2 ideas[wind,spirit] are not easily separable at this point) and the presence of the creator.
Some Rabbis teach that the "wind" or "spirit" are the result of G-d literally speaking the creation into existence. His breath if you will, as they seem to have thought of it. Next, is the idea of light and darkness ;
1.3 G-d said Let light be and light was
1.4 G-d saw the light [as] good [and] G-d divided the light from the darkness.
1.5 G-d named the light [as] Day the darkness he named Night. Evening and the morning were, one [first] day.
Now, it is on the second day that the heavens (the sky) is created. listen to the story..............
1.6 G-d said Let there be a firmament (a space, an expanse) in the middle of the waters[of the Tehom], and let it(the firmament,space,expanse) divide the waters from the waters.
Note- G-d creates a space in the waters of the Tehom. The ancients saw the water of the sea was blue, as was the sky. They believed their world to exist in the middle of the waters of the Tehom, just as it says. The next verses explain this better. Notice there is an order here, it is create and then it is named. (Some teach a purpose to this idea of speaking into existence(the create), and then to anunciate the name sequence, that the story may also have been used to teach the specifics of their language, but that's beyond or scope here)
1:7 G-d made the firmament that divided the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament. It was [so].
The create. We now have an expanse or space in the water of the Tehom, and the firmament is the upper part or barrier. Next, the naming.
1:8 G-d named the firmament Heaven(properly, "sky"). evening and morning were two [second] day.
Now on the third day the earth and seas will be created. Remember this order of sky, seas, land (or earth) as it will be repeated in the creation of the animals. We have the create,....
1.9 G-d said Let the waters under the heaven(sky) be gathered together at one place, let the dry [land] appear. it was [so].
And the naming....
1:10 G-d called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering of waters he namede Seas: and G-d saw [it was] good.
1:11 G-d said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: it was so.
1:12 The earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, [and] the tree yielding fruit whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind. G-d saw that [it was] good.
1:13 The evening and morning were the third day.
Now, the order of creation, sky,seas, earth will be repeated.
Well, this is enough I think.
Now, we know that the earth and sky are not an expanse created in the middle of the watery Tehom. But that is what the story tells.
It is a fable but really quite a brilliant piece of literature that teaches their understanding of the natural order of things. (which comes just where I left off).
My point is this. This is not and was never intended to be a scientific treatise, It is silly to try to make it into one. To do so is to lose the literary beauty of the fable(for its time and language)
Nuff said.
The weak link here is your last paragraph.
Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.
It is very apparent to me that you really haven't studied Bereshith (aka Genesis in Greek) in detail. Had you done so, you would realize that 1.1 is the equivalent of a toledoth. It is an introduction to this story and as such tells us what this upcoming section is about, simply, the creation. Note the same type introductions at 2.4, 4.1 and others
1.1 "IN THE beginning G-d created the heaven and the earth."
2.4 "These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that HaShem G-d made earth and heaven. "
4.1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that G-d created man, in the likeness of G-d made He him; "
These introductions (and others that follow in Bereshith) are believed to have been added by the [P]riestly source, who compiled some very old legends/stories in this section.
As another poster noted, there is nothing here about bubbles or the waters of the tehom expanding.
Let's read it and explain what this is REALLY about. You might learn something here.
1.2 "Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the Tehom (Translated as the deep in english) and the wind/spirit of G-d hovered over the face of the waters[of the Tehom]. (this can equally well be rendered as "and the wind of G-d blew (was blowing) over the surface of the waters(of the Tehom).
What is being described here is the primal state of the universe. The earth does not yet exist. All there is at this point is the "Tehom", the watery chaos.
The wind or spirit (Hebrew ruwach, these 2 ideas[wind,spirit] are not easily separable at this point) and the presence of the creator.
Some Rabbis teach that the "wind" or "spirit" are the result of G-d literally speaking the creation into existence. His breath if you will, as they seem to have thought of it. Next, is the idea of light and darkness ;
1.3 G-d said Let light be and light was
1.4 G-d saw the light [as] good [and] G-d divided the light from the darkness.
1.5 G-d named the light [as] Day the darkness he named Night. Evening and the morning were, one [first] day.
Now, it is on the second day that the heavens (the sky) is created. listen to the story..............
1.6 G-d said Let there be a firmament (a space, an expanse) in the middle of the waters[of the Tehom], and let it(the firmament,space,expanse) divide the waters from the waters.
Note- G-d creates a space in the waters of the Tehom. The ancients saw the water of the sea was blue, as was the sky. They believed their world to exist in the middle of the waters of the Tehom, just as it says. The next verses explain this better. Notice there is an order here, it is create and then it is named. (Some teach a purpose to this idea of speaking into existence(the create), and then to anunciate the name sequence, that the story may also have been used to teach the specifics of their language, but that's beyond or scope here)
1:7 G-d made the firmament that divided the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament. It was [so].
The create. We now have an expanse or space in the water of the Tehom, and the firmament is the upper part or barrier. Next, the naming.
1:8 G-d named the firmament Heaven(properly, "sky"). evening and morning were two [second] day.
Now on the third day the earth and seas will be created. Remember this order of sky, seas, land (or earth) as it will be repeated in the creation of the animals. We have the create,....
1.9 G-d said Let the waters under the heaven(sky) be gathered together at one place, let the dry [land] appear. it was [so].
And the naming....
1:10 G-d called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering of waters he namede Seas: and G-d saw [it was] good.
1:11 G-d said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: it was so.
1:12 The earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, [and] the tree yielding fruit whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind. G-d saw that [it was] good.
1:13 The evening and morning were the third day.
Now, the order of creation, sky,seas, earth will be repeated.
Well, this is enough I think.
Now, we know that the earth and sky are not an expanse created in the middle of the watery Tehom. But that is what the story tells.
It is a fable but really quite a brilliant piece of literature that teaches their understanding of the natural order of things. (which comes just where I left off).
My point is this. This is not and was never intended to be a scientific treatise, It is silly to try to make it into one. To do so is to lose the literary beauty of the fable(for its time and language)
Nuff said.
The weak link here is your last paragraph.
Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.
The intro of the website is a 'god of the gaps' goose chase. "Theories of physics are incomplete, therefore God exists". This is an assertion (and a fallacy), not proof.
The bible speaks in metaphors to that of which people could understand in that time. I’m not saying all is a metaphor in the Bible, but it does speak in such ways. If the word (Bible) was given to the people in terms such as sonoluminescence, thermonuclear fusion, etc., then it would bring upon knowledge that was not meant to be understood at that time. For what ever reason, I don’t know other than it was not Gods plan. You could also say that the exact way he chose to create everything and the laws that he put into place, such as gravity, were not explained because it was not truly important to our salvation.
“Now, we know that the earth and sky are not an expanse created in the middle of the watery Tehom. But that is what the story tells.” No…we do know that’s what you believe how ever.
“This is not and was never intended to be a scientific treatise, It is silly to try to make it into one.” What’s silly is to rule out God.
“Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.” This is because, like I said, it speaks in metaphors and bubbles in the water didn’t create the Earth and so on, it was God speaking into the waters that had been made to bubble by the Holy Spirit (God).
And this is only a theory, not fact. I’m only trying to make some sense as to how it was all done. Not that there needs to be any sense, seeing how every scientific law was designed by God and there for ultimately could be changed if it was Gods will, making what made sense one minute make no sense the next.
And what I don’t understand (I really do) is if scientists can swallow the theory of everything coming from a giant explosion, then why can’t they swallow this? Life is gushing with signs of intelligent design.
Also, why do people have to be so rude? It makes and a** out of me and you.
“Now, we know that the earth and sky are not an expanse created in the middle of the watery Tehom. But that is what the story tells.” No…we do know that’s what you believe how ever.
“This is not and was never intended to be a scientific treatise, It is silly to try to make it into one.” What’s silly is to rule out God.
“Nothing in Genesis talks about bubbles in water.” This is because, like I said, it speaks in metaphors and bubbles in the water didn’t create the Earth and so on, it was God speaking into the waters that had been made to bubble by the Holy Spirit (God).
And this is only a theory, not fact. I’m only trying to make some sense as to how it was all done. Not that there needs to be any sense, seeing how every scientific law was designed by God and there for ultimately could be changed if it was Gods will, making what made sense one minute make no sense the next.
And what I don’t understand (I really do) is if scientists can swallow the theory of everything coming from a giant explosion, then why can’t they swallow this? Life is gushing with signs of intelligent design.
Also, why do people have to be so rude? It makes and a** out of me and you.
Surely you can say the word ass without asterisks
Don't be such a scaredy c**!
The title of the thread was "Science proves Creation"
which was provocative. Some might call it trolling.
It even got me to look at the film for the minute it took
to realise it was doing nothing of the kind.
It was rubbish. (What was the business with the old fashioned timer count-down?)
Now you are backtracking and saying "why is everyone being
a nasty meanie to me."
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My kid sister had a little water-whistle that worked on similar principles. She did spake therefore hereinto the sounding flute, and the One Dog dideth cover then its ears, of the right and of the left did it then cover, with both of its paws unto.latest version of this crap said:
Unless we're talking about the Word manifesting itself in bicarbonate of soda.
Ah, I think we all appreciate that God had to speak in metaphors to the early Jews, because that was going to be more impressively poetic in the King James version than just telling them so they would understand would have been.
But the net result is that there is no science in the Bible. We're all sorry about that, and we wish you luck somewhere else where the Bible can make a serious contribution.