Science and Islam in Conflict

Michael

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An interesting article on Islam and science in Discover Magazine: Science and Islam in Conflict

All over the world, no matter what the cultural or language differences, science is more or less guided by scientific principles—except in many Islamic countries, where it is guided by the Koran. This is the ultimate story about science and religion.

Cairo, Egypt: “There is no conflict between Islam and science,” Zaghloul El-Naggar declares as we sit in the parlor of his villa in Maadi, an affluent suburb of Cairo. “Science is inquisition. It’s running after the unknown. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.” What people call the scientific method, he explains, is really the Islamic method: “All the wealth of knowledge in the world has actually emanated from Muslim civilization.

..

The Islamic world looms large in the history of science, and there were long periods when Cairo—in Arabic, El Qahira, meaning “the victorious”—was a leading star in the Arabic universe of learning. Islam is in many ways more tolerant of scientific study than is Christian fundamentalism. It does not, for example, argue that the world is only 6,000 years old. Cloning research that does not involve people is becoming more widely accepted. In recent times, though, knowledge in Egypt has waned. And who is accountable for the decline? El-Naggar has no doubts. “We are not behind because of Islam,” he says. “We are behind because of what the Americans and the British have done to us.”
 
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Islam has no problems with science,” he says. “As long as what you do does not harm people, it is permitted. You can study what you want, you can say what you want.

What about, say, evolutionary biology or Darwinism? I ask. (Evolution is taught in Egyptian schools, although it is banned in Saudi Arabia and Sudan.) “If you are asking if Adam came from a monkey, no,” Badawy responds. “Man did not come from a monkey. If I am religious, if I agree with Islam, then I have to respect all of the ideas of Islam. And one of these ideas is the creation of the human from Adam and Eve. If I am a scientist, I have to believe that.”

But from the point of view of a scientist, is it not just a story? I ask. He tells me that if I were writing an article saying that Adam and Eve is a big lie, it will not be accepted until I can prove it.

Nobody can just write what he thinks without proof. But we have real proof that the story of Adam as the first man is true.

What proof?”

He looks at me with disbelief: “It’s written in the Koran.”


I find the lack of logical mental processing amazing - almost shocking.
 
What's wrong with what he's saying? He's saying that Islam motivates them to learn and discover, invent, create, and imagine, and that is bad?
 
Science needs stability, democracy, freedom of expression,” says Senator Adnan Badran, who has a Ph.D. in molecular biology from Michigan State University, as we drink Turkish coffee at his office. “You must have an environment that’s conducive to free thinking, to inquiry. If you don’t, you’ll never be able to release the mind’s potential. It’s a very bleak story, a very disappointing story, about the state of science and technology in the Arab region.

He blames a tradition that began with the Ottomans in the 1500s: lowering educational standards and promoting dogma. “We were open. Islam was open, a strong belief with dialogue. It was tolerant, mixing with other civilizations. Then we shifted to being dogmatic. Once you’re dogmatic, you are boxed in,” he says. “If you step outside the box, you’re marginalized—and then you’re out. So you go west.”
 
Hello Norsefire,

Did you miss the part where his scientific "evidence" was "it's written in the Qur'an"?!?

That's like saying: Well it's written in the book of Scientology that humans come from the Planet Xerox12 so that's "scientific" proof we must have.

Michael
 
I am not saying that any motivation to learn is bad - but if that same motivation must be taken a literal scientific fact - then that is bad.
 
Hello Norsefire,

Did you miss the part where his scientific "evidence" was "it's written in the Qur'an"?!?

That's like saying: Well it's written in the book of Scientology that humans come from the Planet Xerox12 so that's "scientific" proof we must have.

Michael

No, I didn't. He's saying that his motivation is in the Koran

Is Christianity any better? I laugh at the scientists that call themselves Christians.....

But on everything else, he is right. Islam rewards open minds. Islamic extremists (or any extremists) don't
 

Nobody can just write what he thinks without proof. But we have real proof that the story of Adam as the first man is true.

What proof?”

He looks at me with disbelief: “It’s written in the Koran.”

Wow. Thats a great example of how delusion can retard science.
 
Is Christianity any better? I laugh at the scientists that call themselves Christians.....
True if they call themselves Christian-Scientists. I'm think of idiots at the Christian Discovery Institute.

But on everything else, he is right. Islam rewards open minds. Islamic extremists (or any extremists) don't
How? While I agree that extreme religous fanatics are usually not open minded I fail to see how even a very strong beleif in the super natural can reward a mind by opening it. Is it possible for most Muslims to honestly and unbiasedly contemplate the notion that the Qur'an has changed over time? Or that the Qur'an was not written by one person? Or that the Qur'an is a composition of many previous religious belong? Or that God did not make human but we are a product of evolution? That there is no God?

I think it's hard enough for most Christians to do so.
 
True if they call themselves Christian-Scientists. I'm think of idiots at the Christian Discovery Institute.

How? While I agree that extreme religous fanatics are usually not open minded I fail to see how even a very strong beleif in the super natural can reward a mind by opening it. Is it possible for most Muslims to honestly and unbiasedly contemplate the notion that the Qur'an has changed over time? Or that the Qur'an was not written by one person? Or that the Qur'an is a composition of many previous religious belong? Or that God did not make human but we are a product of evolution? That there is no God?

I think it's hard enough for most Christians to do so.

Of course it's harder for Christians, they are much more vilent and closed minded

Because, Science improves life, and therefore regardless of religion, you will always have scientists. By improving life and discovering, you are rewarded. Islam is no different.

So long as you follow the faith, you should learn as much as you can! There is nothing against it.
 
So long as you follow the faith, you should learn as much as you can! There is nothing against it.
And what happens when you discover information that is inconsistent with the Qur'an? Which takes precedence, the science or the Qur'an?
 
What people call the scientific method, he explains, is really the Islamic method: “All the wealth of knowledge in the world has actually emanated from Muslim civilization.

He loses all credibility with this one statement. It's an unfortunate future for mankind when lies like these are at the foundation of religions.
 
"The first experimental scientific method was developed by Muslim scientists, who introduced the use of experimentation and quantification to distinguish between competing scientific theories set within a generally empirical orientation, which emerged with Alhacen's optical experiments in his Book of Optics (1021).[28][29]"

The modern scientific method does have its basis in the one developed by Muslim scientists.
 
Was that BC or AD, Sam?

:p

Seriously you shouldn't have to go so far back into history..although at least optics are useful whereas cloning and feeding sheep to cows isn't all that great.
 
And what happens when you discover information that is inconsistent with the Qur'an? Which takes precedence, the science or the Qur'an?

Like what? The Quran does not challenge science, it encourages it.
 
<< “Man did not come from a monkey. If I am religious, if I agree with Islam, then I have to respect all of the ideas of Islam. ” >>

Well - I doubt that anyone believes that either - we share a common ancestor with the other apes and with monkeys, which is a rather different thing
 
Umm, Adam and Eve vs. evolution?
As already mentioned in this thread.

Then, go ahead and choose the one you want to believe in.

The scientists making all of these discoveries may call themselves "christian" or "muslim", but they really aren't.
 
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