yeah spookz man you do need to chill a bit, wishing someone was dead because of a typo haha.
Sars, aids, whats next? and how devestating will it be?
- Thread starter Dr Lou Natic
- Start date
Now come on now. Give me a break, aye? I'm not suggesting in anyway that we're doomed, or trying to start a panic scare, I'm just stating the facts. I was in China during the entire year when SARS broke out and I know what happened - first hand experience. Travel was suspended and they blocked off all the sewer channels in major towns to fumigate the entire systems each week. They really put a lot of effort into containing the SARS outbreak. That's why I know what the potential of this Asian Bird Flu outbreak can also do. It's been going around from country to neighbor country for over six months to a year now and genetic bio-scientists are watching it very carefully and seeing it mutate. If it mutates into a form that can be transmitted from one human to another - just like SARS did - then we're in for trouble. Because the countries that it's in right now (Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia) are third world developing countries without sufficient and modern medical facilities or knowledgeable health professionals - not like China (China is no longer a third world country. It's developed extensively in its urban cities and has extensive scientific and health programs going on - some even better than in the U.S.!).
But you're really understating HIV by stating it's a "scam." That goes contrary to every fact about it that there is. Actually the percentage of people who have HIV and AIDS is extremely underestimated in parts of Africa, other than South Africa (greater than 40% there), because there are no statistics available. The people just die and it goes unreported. The governments don't have the means or the infastructure setup to monitor how many cases there are, but its a lot! If this Asian Bird Flu were to migrate to Africa it would be a disaster. Most nations in lower Africa ARE third world undeveloped countries with NO medical facilities. Ya know? They still believe in using witch doctors, exorcism, and all sorts of folk tale cures. There are no doctors in the majority of these regions. Wham!
But you're really understating HIV by stating it's a "scam." That goes contrary to every fact about it that there is. Actually the percentage of people who have HIV and AIDS is extremely underestimated in parts of Africa, other than South Africa (greater than 40% there), because there are no statistics available. The people just die and it goes unreported. The governments don't have the means or the infastructure setup to monitor how many cases there are, but its a lot! If this Asian Bird Flu were to migrate to Africa it would be a disaster. Most nations in lower Africa ARE third world undeveloped countries with NO medical facilities. Ya know? They still believe in using witch doctors, exorcism, and all sorts of folk tale cures. There are no doctors in the majority of these regions. Wham!
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I suspect your 'goodnight' response to MetaKron's argument that AIDS is a scam was more appropriate than asking him for the facts.
On another thread MetaKron has accused me of being a bully. I'd like to suggest that someone who argues AIDS is a scam is effectively a murderer. I hope the logic for that conclusion is clear.
To valich, peace; to Metakron, goodnight.
On another thread MetaKron has accused me of being a bully. I'd like to suggest that someone who argues AIDS is a scam is effectively a murderer. I hope the logic for that conclusion is clear.
To valich, peace; to Metakron, goodnight.
According to an article in Science referencing two seperate scientific papers, the source of the SARS virus has been finally pinned down to bats. The horseshoe bat to be precise.
The question now is what order did the infection take? Did the virus jump directly to humans from the bats or did it pass through civets first?
Both bats and civets are eaten by the Chinese (imagine that.)
This is apparently the third deadly virus in a decade to pass from bats to humans. Hendra, Nipah, and now SARS.
On a lighter note. I love the episode of South Park where the Indians (native Americans) infect the citizens of South Park with SARS by rubbing naked Chinese people on blankets and then offering them as gifts.
The question now is what order did the infection take? Did the virus jump directly to humans from the bats or did it pass through civets first?
Both bats and civets are eaten by the Chinese (imagine that.)
This is apparently the third deadly virus in a decade to pass from bats to humans. Hendra, Nipah, and now SARS.
On a lighter note. I love the episode of South Park where the Indians (native Americans) infect the citizens of South Park with SARS by rubbing naked Chinese people on blankets and then offering them as gifts.
Ophiolite said:
If you don't want to be perceived as a bully, discard the beany and the t-shirt with the sleeves cut off.
The fact that AIDS is a scam is very evident when you put the evidence together and evaluate it intelligently. The authoritarian mindset lets you see that the moon is white and still accept the word of authority that it is bright green with red polka dots. I think that is the kind of argument that AIDS supporters bring, those who are able to construct any sort of argument at all. They just point a finger at something that in no way proves anything and say "that proves it." I've tried dealing with these people logically before and there is just no way in hell. They drag the discussion down to the lowest level possible and make it a war of nerves. Then people go along with it.
Honestly, I said goodnight because I was going to sleep but then actually I did think it was first more important to ask for the source of the facts. That's why my quick second reply to KetaKron. Look at the time they were both sent - really.
Inverus:
Do you have the title or date of that Nature article. Most scientists still think SARS originated from the civet cat. I've heard that bats were just carriers.
As of Oct. 2nd, 2005: "HK researchers say SARS originated from cats"
www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=21593
Inverus:
Do you have the title or date of that Nature article. Most scientists still think SARS originated from the civet cat. I've heard that bats were just carriers.
As of Oct. 2nd, 2005: "HK researchers say SARS originated from cats"
www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=21593
Science. Not Nature.
"Researchers Tie Deadly SARS Virus to Bats." Science, Sept 30, Vol. 309, No. 5744, pp. 2154-2155. Online link.
The papers referenced are one published in Science online (and to which I have no access): http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1118391
And the other was published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by Susanna Lau and colleagues at the University of Hong Kong (HKU) on the 16th of September. (I don't have a link or title to this one.)
The problem with the civets being the source of the virus is that no natural reservoir of the virus has been found in the wild or farmed civet population. The civets apparently get infected at the marketplace where they are in close proximity to both humans and bats.
But, it was found widespread in the horseshoe bat population. Not only was it found, but it was found as a number of variants which suggest a natural reservoir from which the unique mutation which allowed the virus to jump species originated rather than vice versa.
Research is now under way to take some of these wild coronavirus variants and try to infect either civets or human cells or both. The question being just how common is the mutation which allows the virus to jump species and at what risk are humans from future bat viruses.
An interesting fact, bats live 5-50 years which gives them plenty of time to maintain a 'stable reservoir' for viruses. I never realized that bats lived so long.
Not exactly:
"Posted online: Friday, May 23, 2003 at 1624 hours IST"
"Researchers Tie Deadly SARS Virus to Bats." Science, Sept 30, Vol. 309, No. 5744, pp. 2154-2155. Online link.
The papers referenced are one published in Science online (and to which I have no access): http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1118391
And the other was published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by Susanna Lau and colleagues at the University of Hong Kong (HKU) on the 16th of September. (I don't have a link or title to this one.)
The problem with the civets being the source of the virus is that no natural reservoir of the virus has been found in the wild or farmed civet population. The civets apparently get infected at the marketplace where they are in close proximity to both humans and bats.
But, it was found widespread in the horseshoe bat population. Not only was it found, but it was found as a number of variants which suggest a natural reservoir from which the unique mutation which allowed the virus to jump species originated rather than vice versa.
Research is now under way to take some of these wild coronavirus variants and try to infect either civets or human cells or both. The question being just how common is the mutation which allows the virus to jump species and at what risk are humans from future bat viruses.
An interesting fact, bats live 5-50 years which gives them plenty of time to maintain a 'stable reservoir' for viruses. I never realized that bats lived so long.
Not exactly:
"Posted online: Friday, May 23, 2003 at 1624 hours IST"
Thanks! I'm afraid I don't have authorization to access the full text on-line but can get it at our library. Did read the abstract though. There's been a lot of reaction to that article and other reports:
"The Australian," "Bat SARS may be clue: scientists" Sept.11, 2005
BATS found in Hong Kong carry a virus very similar to the severe acute respiratory syndrome or SARS virus and might be able to spread it, Chinese researchers have reported.
They said the horseshoe bats, valued both as food and for their use in Chinese medicine, should be handled with great care. They may have helped spread the virus among different species of animals, the researchers said....
The isolation of SARS-coronavirus from caged animals, including Himalayan palm civets and a raccoon dog, from wild live markets in mainland China suggested that these animals are the reservoir for the origin of the SARS epidemic," Kwok-yung Yuen of the University of Hong Kong and colleagues wrote in their report, published in the Proceedings of the national Academy of Sciences. However, several lines of evidence suggested that the civet may have served only as an amplification host....
They found a coronavirus similar to SARS in nearly 40 per cent of wild Chinese horseshoe bats they examined. Genetic analysis of the bat SARS virus showed it was closely related to the human SARS coronavirus. The researchers could not determine how the bats were originally infected or whether bats were responsible for transmitting the SARS coronavirus to other mammals including the civets."
Still seems like it might be controversial?
"The Australian," "Bat SARS may be clue: scientists" Sept.11, 2005
BATS found in Hong Kong carry a virus very similar to the severe acute respiratory syndrome or SARS virus and might be able to spread it, Chinese researchers have reported.
They said the horseshoe bats, valued both as food and for their use in Chinese medicine, should be handled with great care. They may have helped spread the virus among different species of animals, the researchers said....
The isolation of SARS-coronavirus from caged animals, including Himalayan palm civets and a raccoon dog, from wild live markets in mainland China suggested that these animals are the reservoir for the origin of the SARS epidemic," Kwok-yung Yuen of the University of Hong Kong and colleagues wrote in their report, published in the Proceedings of the national Academy of Sciences. However, several lines of evidence suggested that the civet may have served only as an amplification host....
They found a coronavirus similar to SARS in nearly 40 per cent of wild Chinese horseshoe bats they examined. Genetic analysis of the bat SARS virus showed it was closely related to the human SARS coronavirus. The researchers could not determine how the bats were originally infected or whether bats were responsible for transmitting the SARS coronavirus to other mammals including the civets."
Still seems like it might be controversial?
Did you catch this article in in the same issue?
"EPIDEMIOLOGY: Horse Flu Virus Jumps to Dogs," Science 2005 309: 2147
On the SARS report:
"One team from China, Australia and the United States reported its findings Thursday in the online version of Science. The other team, from the University of Hong Kong, reported its findings on Tuesday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Now two scientific teams have independently identified the Chinese horseshoe bat as that animal and as a hiding place for the virus in nature."It's pretty pleasant to see two teams that did not know each other reach similar findings," Dr. Lin-Fa Wang, a virologist at the Australian Animal Health Laboratory. The bats apparently are healthy carriers of SARS....
SARS now appears to join a number of other infectious agents that bats can transmit. Over the last decade, bats have been found as the source of two newly discovered human infections caused by the Nipah and Hendra viruses that can produce encephalitis and respiratory disease.
The New York Times, "2 Teams Identify Chinese Bat as SARS Virus Hiding Place," Sept.30th 2005
"GUANGZHOU: Scientists announced a possible breakthrough in the treatment of (SARS) on Friday." According to their report in Guangzhou, South China's Guangdong Province... "China Daily"
"EPIDEMIOLOGY: Horse Flu Virus Jumps to Dogs," Science 2005 309: 2147
On the SARS report:
"One team from China, Australia and the United States reported its findings Thursday in the online version of Science. The other team, from the University of Hong Kong, reported its findings on Tuesday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Now two scientific teams have independently identified the Chinese horseshoe bat as that animal and as a hiding place for the virus in nature."It's pretty pleasant to see two teams that did not know each other reach similar findings," Dr. Lin-Fa Wang, a virologist at the Australian Animal Health Laboratory. The bats apparently are healthy carriers of SARS....
SARS now appears to join a number of other infectious agents that bats can transmit. Over the last decade, bats have been found as the source of two newly discovered human infections caused by the Nipah and Hendra viruses that can produce encephalitis and respiratory disease.
The New York Times, "2 Teams Identify Chinese Bat as SARS Virus Hiding Place," Sept.30th 2005
"GUANGZHOU: Scientists announced a possible breakthrough in the treatment of (SARS) on Friday." According to their report in Guangzhou, South China's Guangdong Province... "China Daily"
Facial
Valued Senior Member
It's pretty funny how random diseases ravage entire communities and then suddenly disappear.
I saw a TV program on Nat'l Geo on the 14th century plague in Europe, and it suggested that it wasn't any form of the plague that we know today (bubonic, pneumonic).
At least SARS has been controlled.
I saw a TV program on Nat'l Geo on the 14th century plague in Europe, and it suggested that it wasn't any form of the plague that we know today (bubonic, pneumonic).
At least SARS has been controlled.
Yeah. I did. In fact, was considering starting a thread on it. I know that Fraggle, for one, would be interested. It'd be terrible if dogs started dropping dead all over the country from this. For now, it seems to be somewhat sedated... they make frequent mentions of racing dogs. That's one thing that would limit the spreading of a dog flu. Many dogs don't intermingle with other dogs. But, then again, a lot do. Dog-walking parks and such.
I was planning on doing a little research on the Chestnut blight too. This talk of viruses made me think of it. However, if I remember right, the Chestnut blight is a fungus... I forget though.
It's strange to think that a hundred years ago chestnut trees were common and now they're rare.
"Chestnuts roasting on an open fire..." I've never roasted a chestnut in my life. Nor have I known anyone who has done so.
It's still a touch early. But I don't know if I'd call it controversial exactly. The evidence of the virus in wild bats is striking. There is still the question of intermediary hosts and etc, but overall it's looking like the bat's the culprit.
The big difference between plagues and disease of the past that back then wiped out half a continent is the extent of international travel today. Like I said. One person with a virus, plague, or disease gets on a Boeing 747 with 300 or 400 hundred other people from twenty different countries and within one day you've got an uncontrollable pandemic and we all die. Sai la vie (did I spell that write?).
"Oh no. We're all going to die." - Chill out valich spookz man - "But we're all going to die. Help! Help! Help! What about my poor little puppy dog, such an innocent creature and he'll die too. Help!!!"
"Oh no. We're all going to die." - Chill out valich spookz man - "But we're all going to die. Help! Help! Help! What about my poor little puppy dog, such an innocent creature and he'll die too. Help!!!"
Chestnut blight was a fungus (Cryphonectria parasitica; formerly known as Endothia parasitica) and was introduced from Asia
"was first observed killing trees in the Bronx Zoo (New York City) in 1904. From there, Chestnut blight spread rapidly through eastern North America, and across the entire natural range of the Chestnut. It reached southern Ontario in the early 1920s; and by the 1930s almost all American chestnut trees were infected and dying. By 1950, this once prevalent tree species of the eastern forests was reduced to the status of a threatened species."
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~chestnut/chestnut_blight.htm
Similarly, we're seeing a disappearance of Southern tree species like oak trees replacing Northern trees like pine trees or those in Northern boreal forests because of global warming. Glaciers are receding 40 miles per year in Greenland. It's expected that the Arctic will have no summer ice by 2001. Permafost melting is causing forests not to grow where they once thrived in Alaska and Canada.
"was first observed killing trees in the Bronx Zoo (New York City) in 1904. From there, Chestnut blight spread rapidly through eastern North America, and across the entire natural range of the Chestnut. It reached southern Ontario in the early 1920s; and by the 1930s almost all American chestnut trees were infected and dying. By 1950, this once prevalent tree species of the eastern forests was reduced to the status of a threatened species."
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~chestnut/chestnut_blight.htm
Similarly, we're seeing a disappearance of Southern tree species like oak trees replacing Northern trees like pine trees or those in Northern boreal forests because of global warming. Glaciers are receding 40 miles per year in Greenland. It's expected that the Arctic will have no summer ice by 2001. Permafost melting is causing forests not to grow where they once thrived in Alaska and Canada.
"The U.S.'s top health official says the world is "woefully unprepared" to respond to a pandemic, a problem made more urgent by concerns that the current avian flu virus could spread into a global health crisis. You'd think that it would be a matter of constant concern to us. It has not been, anywhere in the world....
The Bush administration has seized on the avian flu as a potential threat. A senior official from the U.S. Agency for International Development said Andrew Natsios, the agency's administrator, had made the virus "the top priority" for allocation of funding and personnel. President George W. Bush has said aggressive action would be needed to prevent a potentially disastrous U.S. outbreak of the disease....
The World Health Organization has confirmed at least 116 cases of the current bird flu virus, including 60 deaths -- with a mortality rate of more than 50 percent. All but a handful of cases were caused by direct contact with sick birds, suggesting the virus, so far, is unable to move easily among humans. But health officials have warned that with continued exposure to people, the virus could mutate further and develop that ability.
Officials have expressed fears that the virus is currently acting similarly to the 1918 flu virus, a pandemic that killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million people. Researchers announced Wednesday that they had reconstructed the 1918 strain of flu virus, a major advancement that could speed up preparation for -- and potentially thwart -- a pandemic.
from "Official: World not ready for flu," CNN.com, Thursday, Oct. 6, 2005.
Notice the quote "All but a handful of cases were caused by direct contact with sick birds." Possible direct contact with people?
The Bush administration has seized on the avian flu as a potential threat. A senior official from the U.S. Agency for International Development said Andrew Natsios, the agency's administrator, had made the virus "the top priority" for allocation of funding and personnel. President George W. Bush has said aggressive action would be needed to prevent a potentially disastrous U.S. outbreak of the disease....
The World Health Organization has confirmed at least 116 cases of the current bird flu virus, including 60 deaths -- with a mortality rate of more than 50 percent. All but a handful of cases were caused by direct contact with sick birds, suggesting the virus, so far, is unable to move easily among humans. But health officials have warned that with continued exposure to people, the virus could mutate further and develop that ability.
Officials have expressed fears that the virus is currently acting similarly to the 1918 flu virus, a pandemic that killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million people. Researchers announced Wednesday that they had reconstructed the 1918 strain of flu virus, a major advancement that could speed up preparation for -- and potentially thwart -- a pandemic.
from "Official: World not ready for flu," CNN.com, Thursday, Oct. 6, 2005.
Notice the quote "All but a handful of cases were caused by direct contact with sick birds." Possible direct contact with people?
Could you actually prepare for a pandemic?
