samcdkey on Islam
- Thread starter superluminal
- Start date
sam, you have been beset by trolls.
take the tact i use, and interact only with those that are interested in engaging and intelligent debate, rather than those that have no wish to learn.
take the tact i use, and interact only with those that are interested in engaging and intelligent debate, rather than those that have no wish to learn.
The Kufic script was developed especially for religious purposes:
Broadly speaking, there were two distinct scripts in the early centuries of Islam: cursive script and Kufic script. For everyday purposes a cursive script was employed: typical examples are to be seen in the Arabic papyri from Egypt. Rapidly executed, the script does not appear to have been subject to formal and rigorous rules, and not all the surviving examples are the work of professional scribes. Kufic script, however, seems to have been developed for religious and official purposes. The term Kufic means "the script of Kufah," an Islamic city founded in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq) in AD 638, but the actual connection between the city and the script is not clear. Kufic is a more or less square and angular script characterized by its heavy, bold, and lapidary style. Its letters are generally thick, squat, and unslanted, and it was particularly suitable for writing on stone or metal, for painting or carving inscriptions on the walls of mosques, and for lettering on coins. Professional copyists employed a particular form of Kufic for reproducing the earliest copies of the Quran that have survived. These are written on parchment and date from the 8th to the 10th century. They are mostly of an oblong as opposed to codex format. The writing is frequently large, especially in the early examples, so that there may be as few as three lines to a single page. The script can hardly be described as stiff and angular; rather, the pace is majestic and measured. With the high development of Arabic calligraphy, Kufic writing became an exceptionally beautiful script. From it, there were derived a number of other styles, chiefly medieval, in North and Central Africa, Spain, and northern Arabia.
Kufic went out of general use about the 11th century, although it continued to be used as a decorative element contrasting with those scripts that superseded it. About AD 1000 a new script was established and came to be used for copying the Quran. This is the so-called naskhi script, which has remained perhaps the most popular script in the Arab world. It is a cursive script based on certain laws governing the proportions between the letters. The two names associated with its development are Ibn Muqlah and Ibn al-Bawwab, both of whom lived and worked in Mesopotamia. Naskhi was always employed chiefly for writing on papyrus. In time, it evolved into innumerable styles and varieties, including the ta'liq, the riqa', the diwani, and the thuluth, and became the parent of the modern Arabic writing.
Broadly speaking, there were two distinct scripts in the early centuries of Islam: cursive script and Kufic script. For everyday purposes a cursive script was employed: typical examples are to be seen in the Arabic papyri from Egypt. Rapidly executed, the script does not appear to have been subject to formal and rigorous rules, and not all the surviving examples are the work of professional scribes. Kufic script, however, seems to have been developed for religious and official purposes. The term Kufic means "the script of Kufah," an Islamic city founded in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq) in AD 638, but the actual connection between the city and the script is not clear. Kufic is a more or less square and angular script characterized by its heavy, bold, and lapidary style. Its letters are generally thick, squat, and unslanted, and it was particularly suitable for writing on stone or metal, for painting or carving inscriptions on the walls of mosques, and for lettering on coins. Professional copyists employed a particular form of Kufic for reproducing the earliest copies of the Quran that have survived. These are written on parchment and date from the 8th to the 10th century. They are mostly of an oblong as opposed to codex format. The writing is frequently large, especially in the early examples, so that there may be as few as three lines to a single page. The script can hardly be described as stiff and angular; rather, the pace is majestic and measured. With the high development of Arabic calligraphy, Kufic writing became an exceptionally beautiful script. From it, there were derived a number of other styles, chiefly medieval, in North and Central Africa, Spain, and northern Arabia.
Kufic went out of general use about the 11th century, although it continued to be used as a decorative element contrasting with those scripts that superseded it. About AD 1000 a new script was established and came to be used for copying the Quran. This is the so-called naskhi script, which has remained perhaps the most popular script in the Arab world. It is a cursive script based on certain laws governing the proportions between the letters. The two names associated with its development are Ibn Muqlah and Ibn al-Bawwab, both of whom lived and worked in Mesopotamia. Naskhi was always employed chiefly for writing on papyrus. In time, it evolved into innumerable styles and varieties, including the ta'liq, the riqa', the diwani, and the thuluth, and became the parent of the modern Arabic writing.
One note about the Gospels:
The Quran speaks of the Gospel of Jesus, not of his disciples.
"And when God will say: ‘O Jesus, did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides God?’ He will reply: ‘Glory be to Thee! it was not for me to say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen. I said to them naught save as Thou didst command me: Serve God, my Lord and your Lord; and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die Thou wast the Watcher over them. And Thou art Witness of all things’." (5:116, 117)
And they say: the Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a Son. Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall to ruins, that ye ascribe to the Beneficent a son, when it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should chose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave. (Qur’an 19:88-93)
Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (Qur’an 3:59).
So when the Quran speaks of the Injeel, it is the Gospel that Jesus preached.
The Miracles of Jesus:
In the Qur’an Allah quotes Jesus, peace be upon him, as saying:
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
Again, in the Qur’an Allah tells us about the situation on the Day of Judgement:
In the day when Allah gathers together the messengers and says: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.
When Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto you and unto your mother; how I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, so that you spoke unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught you the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how you did shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and did blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and you did heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission . . . (Qur’an 5:109-110)
The Quran speaks of the Gospel of Jesus, not of his disciples.
"And when God will say: ‘O Jesus, did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides God?’ He will reply: ‘Glory be to Thee! it was not for me to say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen. I said to them naught save as Thou didst command me: Serve God, my Lord and your Lord; and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die Thou wast the Watcher over them. And Thou art Witness of all things’." (5:116, 117)
And they say: the Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a Son. Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall to ruins, that ye ascribe to the Beneficent a son, when it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should chose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave. (Qur’an 19:88-93)
Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (Qur’an 3:59).
So when the Quran speaks of the Injeel, it is the Gospel that Jesus preached.
The Miracles of Jesus:
In the Qur’an Allah quotes Jesus, peace be upon him, as saying:
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
Again, in the Qur’an Allah tells us about the situation on the Day of Judgement:
In the day when Allah gathers together the messengers and says: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.
When Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto you and unto your mother; how I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, so that you spoke unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught you the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how you did shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and did blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and you did heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission . . . (Qur’an 5:109-110)
Vega said:
The Quranic interpretations are still subject to the motivation of the person reading the verses, since many words have many alternate meanings. The Kufic script I indicated to you as you seemed to doubt the veracity of the Quran since it was written in this script. However, once you realise that the script was developed primarily for the Quran, you can understand why it was different from the cursive script of the day.
The credibility of the verses and their recitation are based on the many copies of the original manuscript preserved by Abu Bakr down to Hamsa and reinforced by the presence of the many Qurra from both the first and second generation.
As for the many recitations of the Quran, it may interest you to know that there are 10 variations which give complementary meanings to the words in the Quran and are all preserved by different schools.
not elitist, observant over the years of certain personalities on this forum.John99 said:
but thanks for the compliment?
Good Morning all
I have to say i have found the last 2 pages of posts very ineteresting.... But one thing remains where is ahmed osman, he has not told us what part of eygpt hje is from yet or which mosque he leads??
I have to say i have found the last 2 pages of posts very ineteresting.... But one thing remains where is ahmed osman, he has not told us what part of eygpt hje is from yet or which mosque he leads??
Vega said:
http://i-cias.com/e.o/sharia.htm
In other words it is a body of knowledge collected and interpreted by Islamic scholars.
Due to the rise of extremist movements like Wahabism, Sharia has not been subjected to alterations since many years.
Something like following Old Anglo-Saxon laws in present day Britain.
What is needed today is for the law to be updated from ancient times to modern cultures. A lot of Islamic scholars are questioning the application of centuries old legal systems to present day society.
A reform is a long time overdue in the jurisprudence system in Islam.
http://www.cii.gov.pk/infoservice/interWS.asp
ah your very own thread,..gives you a sense of pride and authority doesn't it!samcdkey said:I figured we derailed that one enough!
If you wanna ask me questions just use this thread.
I like seeing my name in print!
oh btw I did remember there was a big commotion about you deleting some comments you made to that "Imam guy" a couple weeks ago...
yeah that would have looked a bit obcene ..."something about putting your foot up his"...!!!
but anyway back to the topic of discussion..why sharia? why not use the country's justice system instead?
yeah, i had to check out this thread and see for myself.John99 said:
there's only one thing i have to say to you ahmed assman, you better leave sam alone or this whole god damn foruim will be on your ass. got it?
blessed be the internet where moderate muslims can speak the truth without pricks like assman murdering them.
Vega said:
Sharia is just a set of centuries old legal rules and regulations. All the Islamic countries that "use Sharia" claim that they are using the "Islamic law" because they know its too complicated for regular people to understand and they can use it to impose their will on them. Actually every country that "uses Sharia" just picks the parts they want so they can keep the people under control. And unfortunately in such countries the Islamic scholars are either in cahoots with the dictators or are unsure if any challenge they produce will stand up. After all, they could be accused of perverting Islamic law and sentenced to death! Its all about power and control.
The important thing here is that in many of these countries, the people have no access to neutral media and their ideas about laws and human rights are often limited to what their governments allow them to see. So it is not hard to convince them (or brainwash them) that if they go against the law, they will be going against their religion and God.
It is sad how people are mentally controlled and we who have such unrestricted access to media, newspapers, internet, education and secular human values cannot begin to comprehend the limitations in understanding and comprehension of these people with such a limited world view.
But if the Sharia is challenged and changed e.g. in a country like Pakistan, it will definitely create a furore in the Islamic world and the news will spread through mosques and religious leaders (perhaps riots condemning it or whatever). No matter what, if they do manage to get world wide awareness of the fact that Sharia is a legal system and NOT a divine law (as is falsely promoted in many places) that simple fact will be one of the first major steps to the reformation of Islam in the modern world. From what I read and hear, Musharraf is already trying it inspite of constant death threats from Al-Qaeda and Taliban (which may explain his recent "decision" to make peace with them). If he survives and manages to change the Hudood laws, that will be a victory for moderate Muslims all over the world.
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