Right to Suicide

[§outh§tar]

Today’s “New Prohibitionists” cloak themselves in science, arguing that all suicides result from potentially preventable chemical imbalances in the brain. In other words, the suicidal deserve no rights because they’re crazy by definition. When science runs out, critics focus on the agony of those the suicide leaves behind.

Scientific American is not above publishing the odd article with a social or political agenda, but until a February 2003 article on suicide, I don’t recall it throwing an in-house project to a staff editor with a personal axe to grind. Carol Ezzell begins her article “Why? The Neuroscience of Suicide” as follows:

In 1994, two days after returning from a happy family vacation, my 57-year-old mother put the muzzle of a handgun to her left breast and fired, drilling a neat and lethal hole through her heart—and, metaphorically, through our family’s as well.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/flynn_23_2.htm


People need to be able to kill themselves without restraint because they have earned no right to life and therefore upon finding out they really are worthless in the grand scheme, let them give up life. I don't see what all the prioritization of life is about since no one has actually earned any rights and therefore rights cannot be inherent.

As Barbara Ascher said in her essay on compassion, "We want to protect ourselves from an awareness of rags with voices that make no sense and scream forth in inarticulate rage. We do not wish to be reminded of the tentative state of our own well-being and sanity. And so, the trouble-some presence is removed from the awareness of the electorate."

Insanity or not, everyone is entitled to a choice about their own well being as long as it doesn't harm anyone correct? So what do you think about people having the right to kill themselves? Cowards, brave, or insane? I'll clarify as I hear what people think.

**NOTE: I am NOT saying anyone should go kill themselves or that is a commendable thing to do. I am only saying there is nothing wrong with it since no one, not even the person has been given any such 'right' to their life.

 

[hotsexyangelprincess]

eh. i still think suicide sucks because you're destroying your life. other people get sad. And suppose that our "afterlives", if there is such a thing, is akin to that in gilgamesh, or the fate of sisyphus and tantalus and promethyus. wouldn't you have at least liked to have lived a life worth living, if that made any sense? :m:

 

[cosmictraveler]

The problem is that many very nice and good people will be offing themselves and that would be a great waste of human life. The problem is that many real asholes, like some on this board, want those nice people to kill themselves so they can laugh at them for doing so. Many assholes enjoy making good people go crazy just to watch them squirm around get into jams and find no easy way out. Insyead of trying to help the assholes make them want to kil themselves to "rid the place of those that don't nelong" to whatever world that the assholes want to live in.

 

[Tiassa]

We don't choose to be born. I'm of the opinion we ought to be free to choose to die if we are so inclined.

If he does not put down the stone and walk away, one must presume Sisyphus happy.

 

[Athelwulf]

People need to be able to kill themselves without restraint because they have earned no right to life and therefore upon finding out they really are worthless in the grand scheme, let them give up life.

No one's worthless in the grand scheme! Everyone has some impact on the world.

I don't see what all the prioritization of life is about since no one has actually earned any rights and therefore rights cannot be inherent.

What are these rights of which ya speak? I'm kinda confused.

Insanity or not, everyone is entitled to a choice about their own well being as long as it doesn't harm anyone correct?

I suppose so . . . But the question is: Does that include killing oneself?

There's always someone in the world that cares about ya enough to want ya to live. If ya kill yerself, then that person will be hurt emotionally. Have you experienced the pain of the death of someone close to you? Imagine feeling the pain you'd experience if that someone self-inflicts this death.

So what do you think about people having the right to kill themselves? Cowards, brave, or insane? I'll clarify as I hear what people think.

I would think they are ignorant of what role they play in the grand scheme, the same one they "discovered" they were worthless in.

Suicide should be discouraged, but people that try to commit suicide should not be criminalized and looked down upon. Looking down upon them is just wrong.

 

[hotsexyangelprincess]

I agree with you there Athelwulf. :m:

 

[Bowser]

<i>"Insanity or not, everyone is entitled to a choice about their own well being as long as it doesn't harm anyone correct? So what do you think about people having the right to kill themselves? Cowards, brave, or insane? I'll clarify as I hear what people think."</i>

I think you are very brave, in much pain, or insane if you cross that line by choice. I do think it is the right of an individual to take that action if so desired.

 

[§outh§tar]

No one's worthless in the grand scheme! Everyone has some impact on the world.

What about slaves in the Roman Empire, or antebellum America? What about people who are born with agonizing diseases/deforrmities? Would they not prefer to have it all end?

What are these rights of which ya speak? I'm kinda confused.

Speech, protest, religion.. check the Bill of Rights.

I suppose so . . . But the question is: Does that include killing oneself?

There's always someone in the world that cares about ya enough to want ya to live. If ya kill yerself, then that person will be hurt emotionally. Have you experienced the pain of the death of someone close to you? Imagine feeling the pain you'd experience if that someone self-inflicts this death.

So you are saying suicide is selfish? I thought the whole reason people commited suicide is because they didn't feel wanted or that anyone could help them. In other words, you are saying the person who cares has a right to want to see you live on just so they don't get hurt emotionally - the very thing I am questioning.

I would think they are ignorant of what role they play in the grand scheme, the same one they "discovered" they were worthless in.

Suicide should be discouraged, but people that try to commit suicide should not be criminalized and looked down upon. Looking down upon them is just wrong.

Well yes, if you tried to jump into a river and didn't end up dying, you would find yourself locked up in jail or off to the mental institution. I don't see how that can be considered freedom is all.

 

[laughing weasel]

i heard that most people commit suicide when they are just coming out of depression because that is when they start having energy to act. This seems to imply that to allow suicide is a waste because these slackers would probably be ok if they would just hold on for a little longer.

 

[§outh§tar]

i heard that most people commit suicide when they are just coming out of depression because that is when they start having energy to act. This seems to imply that to allow suicide is a waste because these slackers would probably be ok if they would just hold on for a little longer.

A waste of?

 

[laughing weasel]

A waste of resources. Society spends tens of thousands of dollars educating these individuals and wastes an incredible amount of food just to have them get depressed and kill themselves. That is assuming that you do not believe that every life is precious.

 

[§outh§tar]

Not a novel defense but:

It's like people who say "don't throw away that food because kids are starving in indonesia right now".

Those resources would have been "wasted" by someone else of the same time period if not later in the future. That food would have rotten in the store if no one bought it or would have ended up clogging the loo of some couch potatoe. I don't see how that is any less of a "waste". The education money if might have been "wasted" on some other individual who for all we know might just as well end up on drugs or paralyzed in a car accident before graduation. Either that or it would have gone into funding for computers that would have to be eventually replaced or something. Is that too not waste?

Also why is every life precious?

 

[Athelwulf]

Also why is every life precious?

Every life is precious kuz each is a result of a immense variety of conditions working together to make that life unique. Genetics, environment, experiences, people, etc. Unique things are precious. Thus, life is precious.

Also, every life is precious kuz each life has touched, and has been touched by, another life.

Think of yer family. Ya have some fond memories of them, no doubt. Ya've grown up around yer family. Yer family has touched yer life by helping in molding ya into who ya are today. Yer family has been touched by you, as well.

Think of yer friends. Same thing is going on here. They have helped mold ya into who ya are today. As you have them.

I hope that clarifies somewhat for ya.

 

[hotsexyangelprincess]

unless you want to try and argue that there is no point in relationships, and that would be stupid. :m:

 

[vslayer]

if ya want to kill yourself then go ahead, but before ya do, take a week to look around, if you still feel the sname way after seenig waht there is then go ahead.

just remeber, if your gonna die anyway, take some american with ya, that way future generations will see you nto as a loser tha gave up but as a hero that died for te greater good

 

[Nasor]

A waste of resources. Society spends tens of thousands of dollars educating these individuals and wastes an incredible amount of food just to have them get depressed and kill themselves. That is assuming that you do not believe that every life is precious.

The thing is, I'm already under no obligation to repay society for its investment in me. I could choose to go live as a hobo and never do any work, pay any taxes, or contribute anything to society, and that would be perfectly legal.

Similarly, it’s ridiculous to suggest that suicide should be illegal because of the pain it causes others. There’s already any number of perfectly legal things that one could do to cause emotional pain for their loved ones.

 

[Athelwulf]

There’s already any number of perfectly legal things that one could do to cause emotional pain for their loved ones.

Emotional pain greater than that which is a result of a loved one dying?

What things are ya talking about, exactly?

 

[Nasor]

Emotional pain greater than that which is a result of a loved one dying?

What things are ya talking about, exactly?

My point is that it isn't the government's job to prevent me from hurting people's feelings, which is why there aren’t any laws to that effect.

And in any case, I would say that my rights to self-determination and control over my own body easily trump any rights that my family might have to being happy.

 

[whitewolf]

I say natural right to life implies natural right to sooner death.
Each one of us will die eventually, and some people will inevitably be happy about it and some will be sad and some won't care.
It must be realised that nobody is obligated to anyone; therefore, there are no debts.
Therefore, sooner death is the individual's private matter, his own decision. Whether suicidal tendencies are a sign of weakness or strength, I will leave to those who are suicidal to decide (for all depends on circumstances). Is it madness? In some cases it is, in some it is not.
If you limit one's right to control over his own death, you are taking away his essential freedom.

 

[Dreamwalker]

If you ask me, people can do what they want with their lifes, that is their right. If they want to end it, well, it is their choice...

Anyway, I think people sometimes put too much worth on life.