Revelation Prophecies- Who or what is the prostitute....
- Thread starter Dunn11x
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Possible! However, the Beast is made to appear, in the Bible, as Nation/Nations or possibly a false religion, like Islam maybe. And the whore could be the catholic church, but I wouldn't say all churches with the title Catholic in it, just the Vatican its self or Vatican City. This is because the Bible tells the whore to be on many waters, which represent the masses of every people, nation, and language, which the Vatican runs through the Catholic Churches who are more than likely with out knowledge of its corruptness. Even more evidence the Whore is the Vatican City, can be found in the Bible telling the whore to be a city with great wealth and luxury, where the finest goods are imported from all around the world; a great city which is destroyed and when destroyed by the Beast, all the nations which exported to it complained because, basically, they lost a great deal in business.
And if you wondering why the beast would destroy the Whore I can give some thoughts, or you can read Rev.18,16-18
And if you wondering why the beast would destroy the Whore I can give some thoughts, or you can read Rev.18,16-18
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Really,
Doesn't anybody know history. When John wrote this letter already there had been riots in Asia Minor, between Paul's Greek Christians and the Jewish Christians of the Real Apostles. These riots were violent. And then there had been Anti-Rome Riots. Already the Legions were on the march, and John's letter of Prophecy was not so much prophecy as a good guess of what was already shaping up to happen.
So all of those various monsters were so many Roman Legions, and then we have John guessing that the Eastern Empires occupying Babylon, now controlled by the disintegrated Nations of the Alexandrian Conquest.
Just several years later everything that John predicted came true. The Christain Church, that Church of the True Apostles was entirely wiped out. We may suppose that these Christians of the True Apostles were taken up to Heaven to be with Christ.
But that left the rest of the World. The False Apostle Paul's satanic Anti-christical congregations -- who announced that they believed they could enjoy free sin because they condoned the Murder of the Messiah, these confessed sinners OF COURSE would not be taken up. What sinner proud of sin could ever go to Heaven!? So they were left behind, unfortunately to claim to the rest of the World and the remainder of History that they were the True Christians.
Duh.
The Book of Revelation has come and gone. The True Christian Church came and went.
The Church of Paul is NOT Christianity.
Now, as History continued we had the True Church of Mary the Mother of Christ. Mary has never stopped appearing throughout Post-Abrahamic History. You see, the coming of Jesus, and his Murder, and the Punishment of His murderers marked the end of a Dispensation. God's Favor to the Jews ended when the Jews murdered the Messiah. Check Deuteronomy. You can't kill God's Messiah and still be Chosen.
The Church of Mary marked a New Dispensation in Religious History.
Doesn't anybody know history. When John wrote this letter already there had been riots in Asia Minor, between Paul's Greek Christians and the Jewish Christians of the Real Apostles. These riots were violent. And then there had been Anti-Rome Riots. Already the Legions were on the march, and John's letter of Prophecy was not so much prophecy as a good guess of what was already shaping up to happen.
So all of those various monsters were so many Roman Legions, and then we have John guessing that the Eastern Empires occupying Babylon, now controlled by the disintegrated Nations of the Alexandrian Conquest.
Just several years later everything that John predicted came true. The Christain Church, that Church of the True Apostles was entirely wiped out. We may suppose that these Christians of the True Apostles were taken up to Heaven to be with Christ.
But that left the rest of the World. The False Apostle Paul's satanic Anti-christical congregations -- who announced that they believed they could enjoy free sin because they condoned the Murder of the Messiah, these confessed sinners OF COURSE would not be taken up. What sinner proud of sin could ever go to Heaven!? So they were left behind, unfortunately to claim to the rest of the World and the remainder of History that they were the True Christians.
Duh.
The Book of Revelation has come and gone. The True Christian Church came and went.
The Church of Paul is NOT Christianity.
Now, as History continued we had the True Church of Mary the Mother of Christ. Mary has never stopped appearing throughout Post-Abrahamic History. You see, the coming of Jesus, and his Murder, and the Punishment of His murderers marked the end of a Dispensation. God's Favor to the Jews ended when the Jews murdered the Messiah. Check Deuteronomy. You can't kill God's Messiah and still be Chosen.
The Church of Mary marked a New Dispensation in Religious History.
The beast is a man and also an empire on earth he will rule.
The Harlot, is a false religion that will be destroyed by the beast.
I do not think the harlot is limited to any one religion.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Let Paul testify Himself on his own behalf and then let the reader decide who is false:
This letter is from Paul, an apostle. I was not appointed by any group or by human authority. My call is from Jesus Christ himself and from God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead...May grace and peace be yours from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. He died for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live.
Dear brothers and sisters, I solemnly assure you that the Good News of salvation which I preach is not based on mere human reasoning or logic. For my message came by a direct revelation from Jesus Christ himself. No one else taught me.
You know what I was like when I followed the Jewish religion how I violently persecuted the Christians. I did my best to get rid of them. I was one of the most religious Jews of my own age, and I tried as hard as possible to follow all the old traditions of my religion.
But then something happened! For it pleased God in his kindness to choose me and call me, even before I was born! What undeserved mercy! Then he revealed his Son to me so that I could proclaim the Good News about Jesus to the Gentiles.
When all this happened to me, I did not rush out to consult with anyone else; nor did I go up to Jerusalem to consult with those who were apostles before I was. No, I went away into Arabia and later returned to the city of Damascus. It was not until three years later that I finally went to Jerusalem for a visit with Peter and stayed there with him for fifteen days. And the only other apostle I met at that time was James, our Lord's brother. You must believe what I am saying, for I declare before God that I am not lying.
Then after this visit, I went north into the provinces of Syria and Cilicia. And still the Christians in the churches in Judea didn't know me personally. All they knew was that people were saying, "The one who used to persecute us now preaches the very faith he tried to destroy!" And they gave glory to God because of me.
Then fourteen years later I went back to Jerusalem again, this time with Barnabas; and Titus came along, too. I went there because God revealed to me that I should go.
While I was there I talked privately with the leaders of the church. I wanted them to understand what I had been preaching to the Gentiles. I wanted to make sure they did not disagree, or my ministry would have been useless. And they did agree. They did not even demand that my companion Titus be circumcised, though he was a Gentile.
Even that question (concerning Titus' circumcision) wouldn't have come up except for some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who came to spy on us and see our freedom in Christ Jesus. They wanted to force us, like slaves, to follow their Jewish regulations. But we refused to listen to them for a single moment. We wanted to preserve the truth of the Good News for you. And the leaders of the church who were there had nothing to add to what I was preaching. (By the way, their reputation as great leaders made no difference to me, for God has no favorites.)
They saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the Good News to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews. For the same God who worked through Peter for the benefit of the Jews worked through me for the benefit of the Gentiles. In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.
Yes, such a church wouldn't not be Christianity--and Paul agrees with you:
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed...I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase...
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
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Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Dear Photizmo,
Well, you have Paul telling us that he was appointed Apostle by nobody. We have his word for it.
Now, today, how do we treat people who tell us that they are speaking with the Voice of Jesus Christ? Would we let anybody, today, tell us that they should be considered THE WORD OF GOD? But that is what Paul got away with. And he was a Killer. As a Pharisee he had been the lifelong enemy of Jesus. Paul was ALIVE during the Life of Jesus and wasn't a Follower then. Paul knew what Jesus preached and rejected it.
When Jesus was dead, Paul still did not preach the Words of Jesus. Paul in his 14 books NEVER ONCE EVER quoted Jesus. Paul preached Paul.
And why do we let him get away with it, when nobody TODAY would be allowed the same B******T.
Then look at what Paul taught. We could Sin for Free because we murdered the Son of God -- its all in the Blood, you know. Then we have the Doctrine of Predestination which says that God never cared about Morality but favored people almost randomly. We are left to believe that we can see who God favors by how Rich people are -- that Rich People are blessed, and Poor People are damned. This completely turns around what Christ taught. But the entire Protestant World and every Catholic Bishop (those Fat Pigs!) would rather believe paul than Christ.
Why? Why do people believe Paul.
Well, because Evil people find Paul more to their liking.
If a person is a Satanist at heart, wanting only the Forgiveness of Every Sin, then they are drawn to paul.
Righteous People prefer Jesus.
Well, you have Paul telling us that he was appointed Apostle by nobody. We have his word for it.
Now, today, how do we treat people who tell us that they are speaking with the Voice of Jesus Christ? Would we let anybody, today, tell us that they should be considered THE WORD OF GOD? But that is what Paul got away with. And he was a Killer. As a Pharisee he had been the lifelong enemy of Jesus. Paul was ALIVE during the Life of Jesus and wasn't a Follower then. Paul knew what Jesus preached and rejected it.
When Jesus was dead, Paul still did not preach the Words of Jesus. Paul in his 14 books NEVER ONCE EVER quoted Jesus. Paul preached Paul.
And why do we let him get away with it, when nobody TODAY would be allowed the same B******T.
Then look at what Paul taught. We could Sin for Free because we murdered the Son of God -- its all in the Blood, you know. Then we have the Doctrine of Predestination which says that God never cared about Morality but favored people almost randomly. We are left to believe that we can see who God favors by how Rich people are -- that Rich People are blessed, and Poor People are damned. This completely turns around what Christ taught. But the entire Protestant World and every Catholic Bishop (those Fat Pigs!) would rather believe paul than Christ.
Why? Why do people believe Paul.
Well, because Evil people find Paul more to their liking.
If a person is a Satanist at heart, wanting only the Forgiveness of Every Sin, then they are drawn to paul.
Righteous People prefer Jesus.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
The False Religion that most seems like a Harlot -- a Seduction to Evil -- is Paulism. Remember John was a lifelong Enemy of Paul. Every letter John wrote was rebuking Paul's doctrines of Free Sin. And in the front of the Book of Revelation, to the Church of Ephesus, John is congratulating the Ephesians for tossing Paul, the False Apostle out of town (and then Paul writes to Timothy complaining he was tossed out of Ephesus).
Look at Protestant/Paulist Doctrine, and the Doctrine of the Catholic Bishops (not the same doctrines as the Marian Religious Orders... certainly NOT). These Paulist Doctrines speak of a Religion that Forgives, that is ALLOWS Sin.
Think about it. A Religion whose primary selling point is that it FORGIVES SIN. Well, what more could Satan want?
Just think about it. Who stands to benefit the most from the forgiveness of Sin? Satan does. John, in one of his Letters clearly states this argument, that EVERY Demon BELIEVES in Jesus. If the Saving Blood of Jesus can get Sinners into Heaven, then what this spells out is the Victory of Satan over God, as the Worst Sinners will Overrun Heaven.
But only if what Paul said was true. But its not.
Who would be GOOFY enough to beleive that one can be SAVED by Killing Jesus.
Read the Parables. The parables speak of punishment for those who murder the Son of God. Not some HUGE REWARD for Murder.
Indeed, look at Jesus and his own attitude while he was being marched to his crucifixion. He was called down a Curse on Jerusalem.
Look at History since the Murder of Jesus. Does it LOOK like God was happy about it and decided to Forgive All Sins. Or does it rather look like God got really Pissed Off?
Right off the bat you reveal you're careless and cannot accurately reproduce what is right before your eyes...if you cannot be depended upon for that, how much more any interpretation given in light of such a 'handicap'? If it isn't a handicap, and you did it intentionally, what does that suggest as to what you've done with the rest of your comments?
False. Jesus is called the Word of God by God Himself. Paul quotes this same Word of God many times in His letters. For example, 1 Corinthians 11: 24-25.
Those who understood themselves to be "Righteous" were His worst enemies...
Jesus: I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.
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Leo Volont said:
People adore the Pauline Apostasy because it is easier to grasp and more attractive than the ministry of Christ. Take, for instance, the sola fide disaster, and look at what it's led to in modern faith. You'll see even here at Sciforums the occasional argument from an evangelical Christian that seems to separate faith and works entirely. While it is true that works alone will not earn redemption, many American Christians seem to forget that one's faith is reflected in their works; they seem to think that believing Jesus will save them is all that is required, and thus go along their merry way. (Watch the political arguments about religion in this country. Liberals will often cite Christ when querying evangelical conservatives about the appearance of hypocrisy; the conservatives will shoot back with Paul.)
True, examples are rife throughout the online world in discussion forums such as this.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Remember that Paul FORBADE the doing of good works -- called good works "boasting"... dirty rags... and Paulist after Paulist has insisted that Salvation must come exclusively from Grace, and that any exertion is Good Works is only to Test God, to Tempt God, and to Defy the Saving Power of Christ.
When the Bishop Pelegius suggested that Will Power may be used to refrain from Sin, he was cast out of the Church, largely by the influence of "Saint" Augustine, one of the Church's most influential Paulists, until the Protestant Churchs were to exceed even his intuition toward Satanic Evil.
Also, consult Paul's attitude toward amoral Election. paul did everything in his lifetime to emphasize the victory of Sin over Righteousness... that was his appeal to the Greek Society at the time. And we also need to consider Paul's opposition to the Real Apostles and their opposition to him. It must have been over something. And then we need to wonder why we all today seem to side with paul. Just because the Real Church was taken up into Heaven during those Last Days (Jesus said the End would come in that One Generation... we are now living in the Next Dispensation) doesn't mean that the Paulist Faction was right because it survived. it may have survived with the rest of the World because it was no better, or even worst than the rest of the World.
Then we should look at the Tree and see if the Fruits are any good. The Catholic Church, while it followed Christ and Mary was good. But the Paulist Factions lead it into Corruption. And now we have the Protestants -- The RightWing War Mongers -- the Factory Owners who had been the Slave Traders and Rum Runners. Is that the Vine of Christ... all of that Evil.
Why would Christ forgive Evil.
Jesus said he would be the Judge of Evil... not the forgiving doormat for Satan to wipe his feet on as he brushed into Heaven over Jesus's Dead Body.
At some point your posting days will be at an end and you will pass on...what then? The words you've etched in cyberspace will haunt you throughout all Eternity...and all you had to do was to trust Someone who had no reason to decieve you, having only "your welfare" in mind.
The Prostitute represents babylon, as it's written all the nations of the world have tasted her wine and are drunk. (Rev 17:2, 17:6, 18:3) This babylon centre of power and authority, can be translated into present time as the only superpower with that kind of influence on nations....yep you guessed it! U.S.A!!! ...sad but true!
John was probably under the influence of a drug at the time when he started seeing these visions.
John was probably under the influence of a drug at the time when he started seeing these visions.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
But you believe that you can ethically continue to sin because you condone the murder of Jesus.
I would not trade with you.
You should not give away your Moral and Ethical ground simply because it is convenient.
Yes, it is easier to be a sinner. But that does not make it right.
Nor do the word of just some guy become true just because you have Faith... another way of saying you wish you could benefit from having Murdered Jesus
There are two Babylons fyi, political and religious...as far as the political one, I think you're spot on. I've suspected a similar thing since 1978. Read Revelation ch. 18...
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Good point. As Jesus says "do not lay your pearls before swine" and "shake the dust off your feet" etc...
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
So how is it that you correlate Paul to God (if Paul insist that wrote the Words of God then you are saying in effect that Paul IS God).
Did not Paul lay his pearls before swine. In appealing to the Greek World with his doctrine of Free Sin, he was indeed not only pandering to Pigs, but pandering to their lowest desires.
Read Galatians. There we have paul advising his missionaries to discern what prospective converts would want to hear, and to give it to them... "be all things to all men". Paul was teaching deception.
As for 'shaking dust off one's feet and moving on'. Well, only if there is another village down the road. We need to appreciate our Priorities. If we can harvest more fertile fields, then fine, but should not leave the Only Game in Town if it is indeed the Only Game in Town.
In many instances in the Gospels where one finds that the words of Jesus can be questioned, then we can find scholarship that supports the notion that the 2nd Century Paulists had gone back to Original Gospel and changed it to match with the New Gosopel of Paul's.
The Book of Mathew, being the most Jewish and the least Greek, appears to be the most trustworthy... being the only Gospel to deal with Christs most popular Stump Speech... the Sermon of the Mount. We need to suspect all three of the other Gospels simply because they found it necessary to cut from their content what they must have realized was Christ's most emphasized teaching and doctrines.
But since Paul disagreed with the Sermon of the Mount, and since Paul's doctrines were out of sync with the Sermon of the Mount, every Gospel but one had this Sermon edited out. And for the rest of it, words were put in the mouth of Jesus in order to prove that he was in fact a Paulist... even before Paul had made up his first doctrinal lie.