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remember bernie goetz?
- Thread starter robtex
- Start date
yellowratbastard
Registered Member
alain said:basically the only time you will need a gun to defend yourself is when your attacker has a gun. so remove guns and then they become less necessary
How do I defend myself when I am alone on the subway and attacked by 4 men much larger than me?
screaming fire?
screaming rape?
a phone and calling 000?
even if they think you are alone that may solve it
and think about this
your alone at the train station and a homless guy walks up to ask you for change for something to eat
you shoot him cause your scared and think he will rob you
you just killed a man who did NOTHING to you simply because you were predisposed to thinking he was going to atack you and you had a weapon where there are no second chances
screaming rape?
a phone and calling 000?
even if they think you are alone that may solve it
and think about this
your alone at the train station and a homless guy walks up to ask you for change for something to eat
you shoot him cause your scared and think he will rob you
you just killed a man who did NOTHING to you simply because you were predisposed to thinking he was going to atack you and you had a weapon where there are no second chances
"elaborate? stats....supportive evidence?"
hmm, only my opinion as a martial artist
"How do I defend myself when I am alone on the subway and attacked by 4 men much larger than me?"
if you are on a subway, and are approached by 4 large men, you get ready to fight, the instant they do something, kick one in the nuts and scream for help. if the other 3 hesitate you can run to the guards compartment, if they dont, hope someone helps you
hmm, only my opinion as a martial artist
"How do I defend myself when I am alone on the subway and attacked by 4 men much larger than me?"
if you are on a subway, and are approached by 4 large men, you get ready to fight, the instant they do something, kick one in the nuts and scream for help. if the other 3 hesitate you can run to the guards compartment, if they dont, hope someone helps you
maybe the problem is station security then not guns
in melb they have safty zones on all platforms with panic buttons and constant servalance (24/7)
on trains they have panic buttons, servalance and security guards on late trains
much better than everyone with a gun
in melb they have safty zones on all platforms with panic buttons and constant servalance (24/7)
on trains they have panic buttons, servalance and security guards on late trains
much better than everyone with a gun
People WILL kill other people, whether we have guns or not. I personally don't like guns and don't ever intend to own onw.. but if I did and my life was in peril, i feel that i might be compelled to let myself live by killing the aggressor.
But the point still remains... People kill other people with guns. But people also kill other people with knives, explosives, clubs, bats, poisin, hammers, their bare hands and... err... sorcery.
But the point still remains... People kill other people with guns. But people also kill other people with knives, explosives, clubs, bats, poisin, hammers, their bare hands and... err... sorcery.
Underling said:People WILL kill other people, whether we have guns or not. I personally don't like guns and don't ever intend to own onw.. but if I did and my life was in peril, i feel that i might be compelled to let myself live by killing the aggressor.
But the point still remains... People kill other people with guns. But people also kill other people with knives, explosives, clubs, bats, poisin, hammers, their bare hands and... err... sorcery.
No it is opposite. People specifically will not kill without guns because of the following things: Will actually, let me get back to the list..
If there is no gun what would there be? A knife, stick, brick, axe, tire iron..ect ect....You can break them down into two broad cateogires
1) blunt obejcts and sharp ones
With blunt objects it would take usually, repeated blows bashing in the persons --usually skull over and over again in a zealous manner blood splattering all over the attacker.
With a sharp object it would take repeated thrusts (maybe a slash in the beginning) over and over usually to the neck with blood spraying all over the attacker.
You see where I am going with this? Now back to the list. For an attacker to kill with a weapon other than a gun he would have to:
1) be more committed to killing the person..it is not about pulling a trigger and its over....its about getting right on top of the person and hitting them or stabbing them over and over
2) its about getting your body bloody in the process.
3) its about looking at them up close as they die. Inches from their face as the killer kills them
4) Its about hearing them scream and yell as the killer continues his repatory actions.
5) its about the higher risk that the person will not die because someone interrupts you
6) its about the attack having a higher failure rate
7) its about having the physical strength to use the killing tool
In short to kill with non firearms take a level of committment than many canidates are not willing to commit to. The idiot who took his gun to the bar, the two friends having a heated arguement.....the girlfriend enraged by her cheating bf.
Taking away guns would weed out the murders who can only kill with a gun and no other insturment. By contrast, a murder with a knife or stick could certainly use a gun.
How do I defend myself when I am alone on the subway and attacked by 4 men much larger than me?
How about using your fists? What are you? Some weakling that is afraid of getting beaten up? I seriously doubt that some guys that want to rob you will go as far as murder you. They will probably just punch you around for a time until you lie sobbing on the floor. But bruises will go away, the life of those that were shot won't come back...
Also, most people, even if they have bigger force and numbers, won't attack you if you appear to be more trouble than it is worth to get into.
You don't have to best them, you only have to hurt them.
yellowratbastard
Registered Member
You are right. Better to take a few hits than be sued by some lowlife's family for everything i have.
But it is so much fun to hurt people...
Anyway, I do not think that they would kill you anyway for a few bucks...
Anyway, I do not think that they would kill you anyway for a few bucks...
robtex said:Do you feel it is ethical, moral, and or/a civil right (depending on country you live in), to carry a gun and would you be apt to use in the following senerios:
1) you were attacked
2) a loved one was attacked
5) to hunt crimminals right after they commit a crime but before they are caught
Only a broken society could even think of these questions. Of course you defend yourself, your community and your property - anything else is pretense and pacifism, and I say let nature take its course with pacifists (e.g. sodomy, subjugation, slavery and death).
so for those of you who have guns....help this thread out..what do you have them for?
I guess at this point I should confess..while I don't have any guns I have a very large knife collection with one sword in it....it is locked up (i have no children) with the exception of the sword which is on display. I study martial arts and started collecting them when I was a young boy (when I started martial arts). I never carry them...they just stay in the house. (or go to class with me everyonce in a while..mostly the sword though for training puposes).
I guess at this point I should confess..while I don't have any guns I have a very large knife collection with one sword in it....it is locked up (i have no children) with the exception of the sword which is on display. I study martial arts and started collecting them when I was a young boy (when I started martial arts). I never carry them...they just stay in the house. (or go to class with me everyonce in a while..mostly the sword though for training puposes).
robtex said:so for those of you who have guns....help this thread out..what do you have them for?
I guess at this point I should confess..while I don't have any guns I have a very large knife collection with one sword in it....it is locked up (i have no children) with the exception of the sword which is on display. I study martial arts and started collecting them when I was a young boy (when I started martial arts). I never carry them...they just stay in the house. (or go to class with me everyonce in a while..mostly the sword though for training puposes).
I enjoy target practice. I like the feel of a pistol in my hands. I like the smell of gun powder. I enjoy being able to hit my target. There is the same sense of satisfaction in being a good shot, that others get from hitting a hole in one, or home run, or any other personal and self chosen route of achievement.
I also have guns for self protection. Depending on where the sheriff is, and what time of day, a 911 call response time could be 5 mins to 25 mins. I do not live in a city.
So far I havent had to shoot anyone. (21 years at this location)
I have not, and dont think I will need to apply for a conceal and carry permit. But that could change someday. I like that I do have that option.
I have used my guns for animal control. (feral cats, troublesome squirrels, raccoons, and skunks). I have also carried a gun when running dogs off my property, but have not had to shoot them in self defense (most dogs have homes and comprehend territory, where many cats around here are barn cats that have been driven away from their point of origin, by the head tomcat, and have no place to go). I also had to shoot a deer once, broken back from car encounter.
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I'm in a similar position to Milkweed when it comes to the response time of law enforcement. But the truth is that my guns mainly collect dust. If I were wealthier, I might engage in regular target practice (skeet shooting looks like fun) but the cost of ammo adds up quickly.
Now that I think about it, it's been over ten years since I last fired a gun. My brother and I went to an indoor target range and went through a couple of boxes of .45 shells with his Norinco 1911. Damn hard gun to shoot straight.
Now that I think about it, it's been over ten years since I last fired a gun. My brother and I went to an indoor target range and went through a couple of boxes of .45 shells with his Norinco 1911. Damn hard gun to shoot straight.
Repo if you haven't fired a gun in over 10 years why on earth are you so big on non gun control? Milkweed 21, years and you are still waiting for the invader who ain't there. What are we fighting about on this forum? What is it that makes you so passionate to have the right to have firearms? I just want to hear....my curiosity is overwhelming at this point..if you don't want me to argue put that in your post and i won't but milkweed why play with a toy that has such a potential for danger (as opposed to hitting baseballs like you mentioned) and repo...10 years plus? at this point firearms arn't even your hobby anymore....at least using them isn't.
where does all this passion for firearm rights come from?
where does all this passion for firearm rights come from?
I'm not gay, but you'll find me passionately defending gay rights, including the right to marry, on these forums.
I honestly do not believe that anti gun legislation will do much (if any) good. Certainly not enough good to justify firearms only being in the hands of law enforcement, the military, and criminals. And once Handguncontrol Inc.'s wetdream of total confiscation is achieved, there will be no going back. Even if statistics show that crime stayed the same afterwards. Hell, even if statistics show an increase. Once the right is gone, it will be gone for good.
Anti gunners and anti abortion groups both know that their ideas are too far from mainstream America to win all at once. So both groups are trying to achieve their goals a little at a time. So you have to fight each step of the way.
As far as Milkweed and the danger goes, would you ask the same of a surfer, a whitewater kayaker, or a freesolo rockclimber? All are dangerous. Evidently the participants enjoy them in spite of it. Intelligent precautions render firearms very safe to handle.
I honestly do not believe that anti gun legislation will do much (if any) good. Certainly not enough good to justify firearms only being in the hands of law enforcement, the military, and criminals. And once Handguncontrol Inc.'s wetdream of total confiscation is achieved, there will be no going back. Even if statistics show that crime stayed the same afterwards. Hell, even if statistics show an increase. Once the right is gone, it will be gone for good.
Anti gunners and anti abortion groups both know that their ideas are too far from mainstream America to win all at once. So both groups are trying to achieve their goals a little at a time. So you have to fight each step of the way.
As far as Milkweed and the danger goes, would you ask the same of a surfer, a whitewater kayaker, or a freesolo rockclimber? All are dangerous. Evidently the participants enjoy them in spite of it. Intelligent precautions render firearms very safe to handle.
robtex said:Milkweed 21, years and you are still waiting for the invader who ain't there.
I said I hadnt shot anyone is all. You assumed the "aint there". I also listed other occasions when I have used a gun. I made it obvious it wasnt singularily about personal protection from people in my own gun ownership.
robtex said:milkweed why play with a toy that has such a potential for danger (as opposed to hitting baseballs like you mentioned)
I have never and will never refer to a gun as a toy. That being said. I ride motorcycle without a helmet too. I drive really fast sometimes too. I dont wear a lifejacket in a boat if I can avoid it. Being as I have both shot a gun and played ball in the same time periods, in the past, I can say this; I do enjoy shooting guns more. Alot more. Personal preference.
robtex said:where does all this passion for firearm rights come from?
Same place the passion for freedom of speech comes from. But you and I know we cannot shout FIRE! in a movie theater, under the guise of that freedom. There are plenty of gun laws I already have to abide by.
Personally, I dont care if you never own or shoot a gun in your whole life. That is your choice. But I do think I should be able to make that choice on my own also. You do agree that MOST people who own guns do not fall under the term criminal, right? And that is the passion behind firearm rights, just like any other right we have. People making choices for themselves, in spite of the ability of some to abuse that right. Just like some people abuse free speech, religion or any of the other rights we have.
robtex said:if you don't want me to argue put that in your post and i won't
I dont want to argue. I have read your posts in this thread and they have not swayed me in the least.
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