Religious Extremism

11parcal said:
Sure the world has started to lose it's religion but the multitude of problems in the world are still related to religion, look at the war on terror, most of the terrorists are from extremist religious cults.
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I am not saying that religion is not involved in violence. It is. It can be used to manipulate people. Ideas and lies can do this, with or without God. There is nothing in the history of the 20th century that says that people are less violent without a belief in God.
 
JDawg said:
Nice dancing, but that isn't what you were driving at. You said that science needed to be controlled so that it would be become dangerous. Unless you worded it wrong, the implication I took from it was that you were saying science in and of itself is dangerous, and left to its own devices would be dangerous.
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once again, left to its own devices, exactly who/what will be taking the helm?



And that's why I said religion gives you cause you wouldn't otherwise have unless you were a sociopath. I never implied that religion was the only cause of persecution or murder on a grand (or even small) scale; I simply meant that it can make otherwise good people do very bad things. And I never said it was the only institution that can claim this. But let's not pretend that it doesn't.
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you could say that religion is a powerful social influence .... but its the nature of powerful social influences to bear some result (how often does the pursuit of wealth, sex desire, prestige etc etc make ordinarily good people do bad things).

Of course the solution is not to outright diminish a social influence, but see that it is properly regulated.
You could argue that in recent years, we have been doing a remarkably bad job at this.
 
Simon Anders said:
I am not saying that religion is not involved in violence. It is. It can be used to manipulate people. Ideas and lies can do this, with or without God. There is nothing in the history of the 20th century that says that people are less violent without a belief in God.
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Ideas and lies... sounds a lot like religion... Sure lies can make people do things they wouldn't normally do but there is no more widespread lie then religion. And I believe I read somewhere (Not sure where so I cannot attest to the accuracy of this statement) that 52% of the U.S. prison population are Christians.
 
11parcal said:
Ideas and lies... sounds a lot like religion...
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this is getting tiring....
Remember 'weapons of mass destruction in Iraq'? Remember the communist regimes? Whatever lies are available will be used.

Sure lies can make people do things they wouldn't normally do but there is no more widespread lie then religion.
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So you say.

And I believe I read somewhere (Not sure where so I cannot attest to the accuracy of this statement) that 52% of the U.S. prison population are Christians.
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OK. Last time I am going to respond to you because you make little sense.
In 2001 79% of the US identified as Christian. This means they would be underrepresented in prisons if your statistic is correct. Look, I'm no fan of Christianity or the other huge organized religions. But I am not a fan of huge organizations in general. The communists did fine with war, killing, oppression, etc. without God.

I'm gonna put you on ignore.
 
11parcal said:
Sure the world has started to lose it's religion but the multitude of problems in the world are still related to religion
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Global warming, pollution, the crisis of the world's economy - all these big problems that we're facing on an everyday basis
- are related to religion?
 
greenberg said:
Global warming, pollution, the crisis of the world's economy - all these big problems that we're facing on an everyday basis
- are related to religion?
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No, but there are many problems religion is causing and has caused in the past, I simply think that organized religion is a bad thing, faith in itself is fine but the Bible should not be considered a non-fiction text and should probably be ignored, morals can be found elsewhere.
 
lightgigantic said:
once again, left to its own devices, exactly who/what will be taking the helm?
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Left to its own devices? Dude, again, science is not an entity. It is the study of things. People need to employ it for it to be anything at all. There is no leaving it to its own devices. I always find it both funny and frustrating that people who want to damn science don't know the first thing about it. I mean, you are embarrassingly ignorant when it comes to this, as are most like you.


you could say that religion is a powerful social influence .... but its the nature of powerful social influences to bear some result (how often does the pursuit of wealth, sex desire, prestige etc etc make ordinarily good people do bad things).

Of course the solution is not to outright diminish a social influence, but see that it is properly regulated.
You could argue that in recent years, we have been doing a remarkably bad job at this.
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One, you could argue that the people who do bad things in the pursuit of wealth, sex, and prestige aren't exactly normal.

There is no way to diminish the influence of religion other than to educate. The smarter we are as a society, the less religious we are. Do you think it's a coincidence that the United States has one of the worst education systems in the Western world and happens to be the most religious nation in the Western world?

All we need to do is stop allowing religious idiots dictate what we can and can't do. We need to laugh Creationists out of the fucking building the second they try to say we should teach their fairy tales in a public school. Until that happens, you've still got Bubba and Barbra-Jean in the Backwoods thinking that Jesus was white, walked on Lake Michigan, and wrote the Star Spangled Banner.
 
JDawg said:
All we need to do is stop allowing religious idiots dictate what we can and can't do. We need to laugh Creationists out of the fucking building the second they try to say we should teach their fairy tales in a public school. Until that happens, you've still got Bubba and Barbra-Jean in the Backwoods thinking that Jesus was white, walked on Lake Michigan, and wrote the Star Spangled Banner.
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It is probable\possible a good amount of 'fairy tales' are being taught in schools so what difference does it make?
 
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All we need to do is stop allowing religious idiots dictate what we can and can't do. We need to laugh Creationists out of the fucking building the second they try to say we should teach their fairy tales in a public school. Until that happens, you've still got Bubba and Barbra-Jean in the Backwoods thinking that Jesus was white, walked on Lake Michigan, and wrote the Star Spangled Banner.
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No, let's not have any "moral watch-dogs". Then humans can be as immoral as they want to be. That would please all immoral people. ;)
 
I am not saying that religion is not involved in violence. It is. It can be used to manipulate people. Ideas and lies can do this, with or without God. There is nothing in the history of the 20th century that says that people are less violent without a belief in God.
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Wars break out when people who are against God oppose people who are for God. War is thus between good and evil. ;)
 
Carico said:
No, let's not have any "moral watch-dogs". Then humans can be as immoral as they want to be. That would please all immoral people. ;)
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Carico said:
Wars break out when people who are against God oppose people who are for God. War is thus between good and evil. ;)
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A lot of the "Morals" In the bible aren't so moral, are you aware that God killed several MILLION people in the the Bible (2,391,421), Satan killed 10.

Not entirely sure where my point is here but think about it, if God could have killed that many people surely the morals in that particular book aren't very good? :shrug:
 
Carico said:
Wars break out when people who are against God oppose people who are for God. War is thus between good and evil. ;)
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What side was God on in the Bay of Pigs Invasion? Because I think we lost, which means God is a commie.
 
11parcal said:
Ideas and lies... sounds a lot like religion... Sure lies can make people do things they wouldn't normally do but there is no more widespread lie then religion. And I believe I read somewhere (Not sure where so I cannot attest to the accuracy of this statement) that 52% of the U.S. prison population are Christians.
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52%!!!!!!!!!!
At least 85%.
 
Jdawg
“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
once again, left to its own devices, exactly who/what will be taking the helm?
”
Left to its own devices? Dude, again, science is not an entity. It is the study of things. People need to employ it for it to be anything at all. There is no leaving it to its own devices. I always find it both funny and frustrating that people who want to damn science don't know the first thing about it. I mean, you are embarrassingly ignorant when it comes to this, as are most like you.
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ever wondered why such people are called "scientists"?
:rolleyes:

“
you could say that religion is a powerful social influence .... but its the nature of powerful social influences to bear some result (how often does the pursuit of wealth, sex desire, prestige etc etc make ordinarily good people do bad things).

Of course the solution is not to outright diminish a social influence, but see that it is properly regulated.
You could argue that in recent years, we have been doing a remarkably bad job at this.
”
One, you could argue that the people who do bad things in the pursuit of wealth, sex, and prestige aren't exactly normal.
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same with religion
There is no way to diminish the influence of religion other than to educate.
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I would beg to offer that there is no way to diminish corrupted religious principles other than by introducing properly established religious principles

The smarter we are as a society, the less religious we are.
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the less religious a society is, the more it rides under the sway of materialistic notions of success
Do you think it's a coincidence that the United States has one of the worst education systems in the Western world and happens to be the most religious nation in the Western world?
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actually if you examine the earlier standards of religiosity in america it is quite impressive ... and if you examine the contemporary strands they tend to be quite banal (ie materialistic)

All we need to do is stop allowing religious idiots dictate what we can and can't do.
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The question is whether all religious persons are idiots

We need to laugh Creationists out of the fucking building the second they try to say we should teach their fairy tales in a public school. Until that happens, you've still got Bubba and Barbra-Jean in the Backwoods thinking that Jesus was white, walked on Lake Michigan, and wrote the Star Spangled Banner.
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the strong presence of nationalism within religiosity is a prime indication of corrupted principles
 
Carico said:
No, let's not have any "moral watch-dogs". Then humans can be as immoral as they want to be. That would please all immoral people. ;)
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The Holy Babble is the most immoral book there is.

Carico said:
Wars break out when people who are against God oppose people who are for God. War is thus between good and evil. ;)
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Each side of every war believes god is on their side. Prove god was/is on any side of any war.

LightG --- the less religious a society is, the more it rides under the sway of materialistic notions of success

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

The question is whether all idiots are religious.
 
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Really this is the main reason I believe religion is disgusting, it causes people to do things that are beyond normal human ethics and morals.
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So without God's laws, what is ethical and moral? Whatever desire each person wants to engage in? :confused: Serial killer Eileen Wornos thought she was a good person. :D That's what happens when a person becomes his/her own god.;)
 
Carico said:
So without God's laws, what is ethical and moral? Whatever desire each person wants to engage in? :confused: Serial killer Eileen Wornos thought she was a good person. :D That's what happens when a person becomes his/her own god.;)
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I'm an Atheist, I haven't read a page of the Bible, I also haven't killed anyone, SURPRISE! Just because I don't have a religion doesn't mean I'm immoral, religion isn't the only thing that can teach morals you know.
 
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