Religion is stupid

rjr6 said:
contradictory: I believe most Christian denominations stress that you should give God the glory for what you are and can achieve in this life. So the pastor answered correctly as you presented him a way of life that focuses on YOU, not God. A well trained labrador could be described as very moral, doesn't harm others and lives in the service of man. Not to say there are no labradors in Heaven, I bet there is, but I bet poodles have a hard time of it. What I mean by contradictory is that by not believing in God, you are not living by the morals set in the Bible, so your question is false. Not to pigeon hole your argument for the sake of it, this is just to argue the pastor's side.

You seem like an intelligent, empathetic very decent human being. You have excellent arguments and your posts are enjoyable to read. Now the rub. Were you born that way? Or, if not, how did you become that way? Were religious people at all involved with any of the positive attributes you have today? Did you study, read or take stock in any literature or culture that was created by highly religious people?

This is not to say that they would be responsible for you achieving success like you have, it is just something to think about. Maybe you have.
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But why would a God or Gods NEED glory for his creation doing good? Is the God of the Christian religion an egomaniac? Does he need constant praise and thankfulness from ALL of his creations? Why? Don't you think that a God or Gods would be thankful that their creations were treating each other with respect and compassion, more than he would be thankful for them saying thank you to him/her afterward? It's just not logical to me at all, I can't wrap my head around a God or Gods requiring that much attention for themselves when it could be used helping their fellow man. Why would a God or Gods choose to spend eternity with a a brown-nosing kiss-ass, instead of someone who was just doing good for goodness sake? What kind of God would that be if he/she did?

I actually have thought at length about it, but it always leads me to the same questions. And I still can't resolve it.

But this is one of my problems with religion, I just can't resolve it and they all seem so contradictory not only to themselves, but to other religions as well.
 
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Liebling said:
But why would a God or Gods NEED glory for his creation doing good? Is the God of the Christian religion an egomaniac? Does he need constant praise and thankfulness from ALL of his creations? Why? Don't you think that a God or Gods would be thankful that their creations were treating each other with respect and compassion, more than he would be thankful for them saying thank you to him/her afterward? It's just not logical to me at all, I can't wrap my head around a God or Gods requiring that much attention for themselves when it could be used helping their fellow man. Why would a God or Gods choose to spend eternity with a a brown-nosing kiss-ass, instead of someone who was just doing good for goodness sake? What kind of God would that be if he/she did?

I actually have thought at length about it, but it always leads me to the same questions. And I still can't resolve it.

But this is one of my problems with religion, I just can't resolve it and they all seem so contradictory not only to themselves, but to other religions as well.
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Would you donate one of your kidneys to save the life of a murderer that killed an innocent person that you loved and loved you back, a very dear person to your heart, that was not punished by our judicial system? Doctors have warned you that you might not be able to work after this, and may not be able to financially support your family, let alone survive the operation?
 
I don't know, I can't even fathom it because it's not really reality based. It's so far fetched that I can't really come to a valid decision on it. There are simply too many possibilities to really form a decision.

But I do operate on a the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one philosophy because I would make the choice that would bring about the least amount of suffering. I also would know that I am not the only match that this person might have and he may find another match the next hour. Given that I am the only monetary support my children have, the needs of the many (my family) would outweigh the needs of the one(one man). But, his crime would not be a factor in that decision because I could never know for sure that he was the one who killed my loved one, since he's never been convicted of the crime... And I also have a problem with people sacrificing their own life for the life of another. Too many factors.

There are just too many variables in your hypothetical to come to a accurate decision either way.
 
Liebling said:
I don't know, I can't even fathom it because it's not really reality based. It's so far fetched that I can't really come to a valid decision on it. There are simply too many possibilities to really form a decision.

But I do operate on a the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one philosophy because I would make the choice that would bring about the least amount of suffering. I also would know that I am not the only match that this person might have and he may find another match the next hour. Given that I am the only monetary support my children have, the needs of the many (my family) would outweigh the needs of the one(one man). But, his crime would not be a factor in that decision because I could never know for sure that he was the one who killed my loved one, since he's never been convicted of the crime... And I also have a problem with people sacrificing their own life for the life of another. Too many factors.

There are just too many variables in your hypothetical to come to a accurate decision either way.
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You would allow this man to die instead of offering your children up for adoption? Medical opinion states he will die without your donation. Your chances are much better at survival (having the operation). You may have to be on dialysis for the rest of your life.
 
What point are you trying to get to? Because your hypothetical sucks and has way too many factors still.

Am I supposed to sacrifice my life for the life of another one for one?

Still, the needs of the many (my children losing their mother and me losing my life, my parents losing a daughter because I support them as well) outweigh the needs of the one. Weighing the suffering on either side, my side would still have a heavier toll. I can not be responsible for all people, I can only make choices that cause the least amount of suffering.

And what does this have to do with religion at all?

I'm pretty sure you are way off topic. Theism vs. Atheism posts are around the corner to the left.
 
Liebling said:
What point are you trying to get to? Because your hypothetical sucks and has way too many factors still.

Am I supposed to sacrifice my life for the life of another one for one?

Still, the needs of the many (my children losing their mother and me losing my life, my parents losing a daughter because I support them as well) outweigh the needs of the one. Weighing the suffering on either side, my side would still have a heavier toll. I can not be responsible for all people, I can only make choices that cause the least amount of suffering.

And what does this have to do with religion at all?

I'm pretty sure you are way off topic. Theism vs. Atheism posts are around the corner to the left.
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In a hypothetical world, this scenario happens, the man is saved and without a criminal record he dedicates his life to service to others. Come to find out he was horribly abused from day one of his life, but through the benevolence of your acts he rises above his circumstances. He becomes a powerful politician and through his leadership creates laws and an environment in this country that virtually cuts domestic abuse in this country in half.

Because man is burdened with the illusion of control and judgment, religion is not stupid to me.
 
There is nothing mentioned about religion there. How would religion guide my decision there one way or another? Don't be obtuse, spell it out for me how YOUR religion would have made me make a better decision so that I can actually deabte something instead of creating a fantasy world in which you are always right no matter how I answer.
 
Liebling said:
There is nothing mentioned about religion there. How would religion guide my decision there one way or another? Don't be obtuse, spell it out for me how YOUR religion would have made me make a better decision so that I can actually deabte something instead of creating a fantasy world in which you are always right no matter how I answer.
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Liebling said:
Well, and that. ;)
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Oli said:
The entire hypothetical scenario.
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The thread does not ask about my religion, it is inconsequential. In my scenario you do a benevolent act towards another and the needs of the many are fulfilled by one's sacrifice. Why does this not agree with your moral code?
 
What if the murderer was actually your son, and he was defending himself against, err..., a bad person? Would that change your decision? I believe religion teaches that doing the right thing is the right thing no matter what your personal needs are.
 
rjr6 said:
The thread does not ask about my religion, it is inconsequential.
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The thread title should give you some clue that the topic of discussion is the stupidity or otherwise of RELIGION.

In my scenario you do a benevolent act towards another and the needs of the many are fulfilled by one's sacrifice. Why does this not agree with your moral code?
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You're assuming that it doesn't agree with my moral code - which shows that you at least know the word.
The entire scenario is a MORAL decision - which is why I stated that it has nothing at all to do with religion.
 
rjr6 said:
What if the murderer was actually your son, and he was defending himself against, err..., a bad person? Would that change your decision? I believe religion teaches that doing the right thing is the right thing no matter what your personal needs are.
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Create as many facile hypotheticals as you wish - they have nothing to do with the thread subject.
 
Oli said:
The thread title should give you some clue that the topic of discussion is the stupidity or otherwise of RELIGION.


You're assuming that it doesn't agree with my moral code - which shows that you at least know the word.
The entire scenario is a MORAL decision - which is why I stated that it has nothing at all to do with religion.
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Oli said:
Create as many facile hypotheticals as you wish - they have nothing to do with the thread subject.
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please state your definition of religion so I can consider how to answer you.
 
re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
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Not my definition but the dictionary definition.
 
Oli said:
Not my definition but the dictionary definition.
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The definition you provided mentions: principles, values and beliefs.
what definition do you have for morals? I am not being smart, I am actually surprised that your definition did not include the word "moral"
 
re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
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It does mention beliefs, values and morals - but you missed the qualifier.
 
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