Religion is necessary

[Greatest I am]

If it was not for the positive cultural values (not the negative) that religion has fostered, i can see that a proverbial sodom and gomorrah would even be more the norm than it is, which is scary and horrific in itself.

.

You fear such a small m9inority. Strange.

I take it that you are homophobic and misogynous. Right?

If not, then all gays ands women are equal in value to you. Right?

If not, why does your God create gays?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Gnostics thought otherwise .

As a Gnostic Christian, I disagree.

Gnostic Christians have always recognized the good social work a local church can provide and that they are good tools for the enlightenment of the general public.

It is the teaching that a church is necessary for us to find God that we condemn.

Listen to what even Martin Luther thought. Most do not know that he was basically a Gnostic.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Probably both types of people are required to form a civilization.

Indeed, both right and left wings must be represented. Balance should be maintained and if one wing is way overpowered as compared to the other, then the Eagle cannot fly straight.

We all need to conserve the good while being liberal enough to change the evil.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Gnostics found morality natural thinking .

Indeed. Natural law is a great teacher.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

No but that isnt the issue. Its not addressing whether some atheists do or dont have morals. Its that without religion and/or philosophy or some type of institution or representation, most people have no self direction when it comes to morals.

This is quite untrue.

Please have a look at some without a religion who still have what we would call morals.
You will be surprised.

Regards
DL

 

[birch]

This is quite untrue.

Please have a look at some without a religion who still have what we would call morals.
You will be surprised.

Regards
DL

Its still not the point. Its like language, without an understood commonality or point of reference, we would be speaking different languages. In general, religion serves a real function of teaching a common or well known ethics and morality that no other institution really does.

 

[birch]

You fear such a small m9inority. Strange.

I take it that you are homophobic and misogynous. Right?

If not, then all gays ands women are equal in value to you. Right?

If not, why does your God create gays?

Regards
DL

I dont mean homosexuals, just immorality in general just like with heterosexuals.

To me, soddom and gommorah just represents a metaphor of insanity and immorality in general. I dont remotely think being gay means you are immoral.

 

[spidergoat]

The problems stem, like most, from decievers, con-artists and those who use religion for nefarious agendas.

Sometimes. Most of the problems come from the teachings of the religions themselves.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Why, though, do you you say it requires religion to foster positive cultural values? Why can't they grow just from good people teaching good ethics to their children?

By your logic, it would seem that non-religious people should make the up vast bulk of criminals.

This is not so.

The point is if they commit a crime such as (murder, rape, terror...) then they are not being religious, any more than Amy "I'm a good person" Smith, being good when she murders her husband for saying her ass looked big in those jeans.

And that non-religious people wold likewise make up the vast bulk of those who have/engage in broken homes, shallow relationships/fornication, disrespect, profanity, vanity, alcoholism/drugs.

They do. Because someone professes to be religious, doesn't make them religious, just as Amy Smith isn't good because she professes it.

Jan.

 

[Greatest I am]

Its still not the point. Its like language, without an understood commonality or point of reference, we would be speaking different languages. In general, religion serves a real function of teaching a common or well known ethics and morality that no other institution really does.

Babies get along without any language.

But to your comment.

Yet both Christianity and Islam grew from war and not moral persuasion.

You find that to be an expression of good morals and ethics do you?

As to common teachings of morals and ethics, you will note that most secular governments have bested religious laws to the point where you never see Christians wanting to live under the draconian biblical laws.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I dont mean homosexuals, just immorality in general just like with heterosexuals.

To me, soddom and gommorah just represents a metaphor of insanity and immorality in general. I dont remotely think being gay means you are immoral.

Good, since the story of lot is a Jewish tale of hospitality and has nothing to do with gays.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-french/hospitality-could-be-a-lo_b_797483.html

Regards
DL

 

[Jan Ardena]

Indeed. Natural law is a great teacher.

Regards
DL

What do they teach?

Jan.

 

[Greatest I am]

What do they teach?

Jan.

How to created both positive and negative biases that are designed to protect us.

We begin creating those biases when born and never stop.

Regards
DL

 

[DaveC426913]

The point is if they commit a crime such as (murder, rape, terror...) then they are not being religious, any more than Amy "I'm a good person" Smith, being good when she murders her husband for saying her ass looked big in those jeans.



They do. Because someone professes to be religious, doesn't make them religious, just as Amy Smith isn't good because she professes it.

Jan.

Which is why religion would not solve these problems.

 

[birch]

Babies get along without any language.

But to your comment.

Yet both Christianity and Islam grew from war and not moral persuasion.

You find that to be an expression of good morals and ethics do you?

As to common teachings of morals and ethics, you will note that most secular governments have bested religious laws to the point where you never see Christians wanting to live under the draconian biblical laws.

Regards
DL

People are misunderstanding. I am not saying most of this isnt true but it is true that especially religion but also philosophy is the primary vehicle where morals are fostered in society and it definitely has some necessary conservative counterbalance. That said, it doesnt mean religion or religionists should have some unquestioned, never scrutinized, hallowed status on a pedestal either.

Im saying religion does play a beneficial and vital role in society in its place and in fair amount. Its like medicine, you dont overdose on it or its harmful. That is the same thing with ideas or groups in society, they should have representation but not allowed to oppress or abuse others and vice versa.

 

[exchemist]

People are misunderstanding. I am not saying most of this isnt true but it is true that especially religion but also philosophy is the primary vehicle where morals are fostered in society and it definitely has some necessary conservative counterbalance. That said, it doesnt mean religion or religionists should have some unquestioned, never scrutinized, hallowed status on a pedestal either.

Im saying religion does play a beneficial and vital role in society in its place and in fair amount. Its like medicine, you dont overdose on it or its harmful. That is the same thing with ideas or groups in society, they should have representation but not allowed to oppress or abuse others and vice versa.

Yes I agree with you. Religion has been a Jekyll and Hyde influence: on the one hand a source of moral and more general guidance on how to live well, not simply responding to all our primitive urges, but on the other it has also been a means of control by a priestly cast and has often been invoked to justify warfare between one tribe or group and another.

Because of this double nature, you will never persuade some people that it has been more a force for civilisation than for barbarism, as this thread demonstrates.

 

[spidergoat]

Its like medicine, you dont overdose on it or its harmful.

Why is too much morality harmful?

 

[Greatest I am]

Why is too much morality harmful?

Because people are generally not ready to accept a moral man.

Ask Jesus. He felt the sting of being too moral.

If you have talked morals with Christians and Muslims, you can also see how un-ready they are even today to accept proper moral positions on things like equality for gays and women.

That thinking is harmful and quite insulting to all moral people.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Because of this double nature, you will never persuade some people that it has been more a force for civilisation than for barbarism, as this thread demonstrates.

Civilization would include equality for gays and women and that notion is not what Christianity and Islam embrace, thus showing they are still un-civilized, so how can you say they have added to civilization?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

. That is the same thing with ideas or groups in society, they should have representation but not allowed to oppress or abuse others and vice versa.

I agree and condemn all the Holy Wars, Inquisitions and Jihads that still try to oppress those not of their theistic idol worshiping ilk.

Regards
DL