Religion, Evolution, and stupid Republicans

Throckmorton

Registered Senior Member
I just read something that made me want to rant so here goes!

"Consider the statements of Dennis Baxley, a Florida legislator who has sponsored a bill that - like similar bills introduced in almost a dozen states - would give students who think that their conservative views aren't respected the right to sue their professors. Mr. Baxley says that he is taking on "leftists" struggling against "mainstream society," professors who act as "dictators" and turn the classroom into a "totalitarian niche." His prime example of academic totalitarianism? When professors say that evolution is a fact."-April 5, 2005 OP-ED COLUMNIST An Academic Question By PAUL KRUGMAN

It seems that Repubiclans, in general, are too stupid to understand evolution and going by the examples provided in this post, somel are too stupid to understand very much at all.

Tom Delay has said that teaching evolution caused the Columbine massacre. Bush has said that the jury is still out on evolution and that the Bible should be taught as if it were an alternative scientific theory to evolution.

I know Repubiclans who, on paper, have a solid backround in science and who aren't religious who go along with teaching the Bible as if it were a scientific theory.

What is it about Republicans that makes them, in general, too stupid to understand anything about the theory of evolution?
 
I'm don't think they were born too stupid to know what a fact is. I think some sort of indoctrination must be involved.
 
Effin stupid generalizations.
Some humans have sacraficed their children to Baal therefore all humans must sacrafice their children to Baal.
 
No, not stupid, just born with a compulsion to believe in something, probably the first things they are told, like a chick bonding to the first thing it sees.
 
I was careful not to say "all" Repubiclans. You don't see any Democrats insisting on it being illegal to tell the truth in biology classes do you?

The theocratic wing of the Republican party is the dominant wing.
 
Haha.

And if these conservative students are to have their way, that isn't 'academic totalitarianism'?
 
that isn't 'academic totalitarianism'?

I think it's safe to say that Professors being barred from telling obvious truths about their subject is academic totalitarianism.

"If it got that far, universities would probably find ways to cope - by, say, requiring that all entering students sign waivers. But political pressure will nonetheless have a chilling effect on scholarship. And that, of course, is its purpose."-April 5, 2005 OP-ED COLUMNIST An Academic question
By PAUL KRUGMAN
 
Hi Scorpius,

Talkorigins is a great website for those of us that like to debate evolution. I once posted about 50 examples of speciation with references to a nice honest fundamentalist and he replied: "Oh....I see".

So much for a society that believes in free speech.

It's a sad state of affairs. We've got people who insist on going back to before the time of the age of enlightment where if a lot of people thought the earth was flat it was considered to be flat.

I suppose there is some encouragement in the fact that our leaders only want to go back to about 1500 AD as opposed to those in the Middle East who want to go back to about 1500 BCE.
 
Instead of going to a place like talkorigins.org which after all is designed specifically to counter Creationism, I believe it's much more compelling to post something like this:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dait/cross-species/page5.htm

Here are extracts, you don't need to read closely, just skim it and get the idea:
Coronaviruses have a high mutation rate and a very high recombination rate. They mutate at a rate of about 1 in 10,000 nucleotides, which translates to an average of about three mutations per genome. Furthermore, they can recombine with different strains and, rarely, acquire features from other viruses, such as HE from influenza C virus. Thus, the replication of coronaviruses gives rise to multiple viral quasi-species, with different biological properties.
[...]
Dr. Baric spoke on Molecular and Evolutionary Mechanisms of Virus Cross-Species Transmission. Coronavirus replication is characterized by high mutation (10-4) and RNA recombination frequencies (about 20 percent), suggesting that these viruses are well positioned to adapt rapidly to a changing ecological niche. Because species specificity in this family of viruses is almost exclusively mediated at the level of entry, coronaviruses are good model systems to study receptor molecule lineages that regulate virus cross-species transmission.
[...]
MHVH2 could also replicate efficiently in human cell lines, demonstrating that virus mutants could emerge with broad host range specificity from mixed cell populations.
[...]
MHVR is a member of the highly homologous carcinoembryonic (CEA) gene family. Humans are known to have about 22 different genes in this family in their genome, including the biliary glycoprotein homologue of MHVR. Although it is unclear exactly which human CEA glycoprotein family member functions as a receptor for MHVH2 entry into human cells, antiserum against the human CEA glycoproteins blocks virus replication, suggesting that phylogenetic homologues of the normal receptor function as natural conduits of virus cross-species transmission in mixed cell cultures.
[...]
The evolutionary mechanisms by which viruses adapt to mixed host cell populations have been a matter of intense investigation. Neutral allele theory proposes that "most mutations are deleterious, that advantageous mutations are very rare, that deleterious mutations are removed by purifying selection, and that less important portions of molecules evolve faster than more important portions of molecules." This model supports the concept of a constant molecular clock that applies nearly equivalent mutational pressure over time to yield phylogenic variation patterns.

Now, not a great deal of that made much sense to me in terms of actually understanding what it all means. But I'm more interested in what it represents. Nobody is having any arguments about God. No-one is thinking of the philosophical implications of an aimless, directionless Universe. They're just getting on with dealing with the causes and implications of virus evolution.

Creationists frequently claim that there is no more evidence for evolution than there is for the Biblical view. Looking at the debate from an unbiased (and relatively uninformed) point of view, this may superficially have some force. After all, I personally have no direct experience of evolution; of geology; of palaeontology; of genetics. I read it all in books myself, so where's the difference between that and Creationists reading about life's origins in Genesis?

But in that case, what are all these people doing? The page is a report from some symposium or other where virus mutation and evolution came up as an important subject. If evolution were a chimera, why would all these intelligent and highly qualified people be wasting their time in a non-"Creation Debate" setting simply talking about evolution as though it were a totally unquestioned fact?

The reason is that it matters. It's important. Evolution, like it or not, is the means by which AIDS and SARS have come into the world, and it is crucial to the combatting of those and other diseases to understand how they appear, develop and propagate.

Evolution, they say, is "just a theory". There are ways of looking at it in which that could be said to be true. But even "just theories" are useful if they provide answers to problems, answers that actually work. Genesis 1 does not, I'm afraid, provide those answers.

Some random ramblings on this subject based on stuff in my mind at the moment. Last night I saw the second half of the classic Michael Crighton medical horror Coma. At one point, the doctor in charge of the organ harvesting talked about American spending on health, and it struck me that the number he quoted was at least in the tens of billions of dollars - in 1977! Even leaving aside inflation, the amount almost thirty years later must have multiplied many fold as the United States becomes increasingly aware of the passage of time and the encroachments of mortality. And yet the government actively encourages the suppression of the education that is supposed to help create the doctors of tomorrow. Secondly, this morning I heard on the radio that here in the UK there is a lot of concern about science courses at universities are closing through lack of funding, and someone said "we're not making enough scientists for our future needs". And it struck me that the Government - any Government - ought to know the numbers of scientists and doctors it is going to need to educate. Again, the state and federal US governments appear to be quite happy to sabotage what is increasingly a major contribution to the nation's economic health.
 
Last edited:
"They haven't heard about the day we created evolution."

You don't think that genetic change over time (evolution) occurs? Mountains of scientific evidence have no effect on you?
 
I believe it's much more compelling to post something like this:

I like that stuff. I used to have my head burried in molecular biology books and spent a bit of time on virology as well. Talkorigins is convenient as it would take a long time to find all those examples of speciation the "old fashioned way" (going to a biology library).

Creationists frequently claim that there is no more evidence for evolution than there is for the Biblical view.

They are harking back to the time before the age of reason when they do that. They yearn for a simpler time when one idea was as good as another and evidence had no bearing on the matter.

Secondly, this morning I heard on the radio that here in the UK there is a lot of concern about science courses at universities are closing through lack of funding, and someone said "we're not making enough scientists for our future needs".

I heard a news piece on the radio about that a couple of months ago. It's a tragedy for philosophical and practical reasons.

Again, the state and federal US governments appear to be quite happy to sabotage what is increasingly a major contribution to the nation's economic health.

Thanks for pointing that out. Our leaders are stupid beyond belief. In many cases they have attended the finest educational institutions in the land and yet their philosophical goals seem to involve taking us back to before the age of Greek science/philosophy.

I'm a huge fan of the Bible. In this day and age one needs to love it for what it is.......ancient mysticism and wisdom, rather than state of the art reasoning.

Monotheists often seem unable to go beyond their primitive ancient Near Eastern roots I suppose.
 
Garry, there is a concept that may interest you - its called communication. Why not try it out in one of your posts.
 
Whether evolution occurred some thousand years ago is not a fact. We do not have hundred-percent certainty. Of course, a professor can still say it's a fact; they must have different meaning, though.
 
Whether evolution occurred some thousand years ago is not a fact.

There is irrefutable evidence that genetic change over time occurs. There isn't any evidence to suggest it didn't occur thousands of years ago and there are mountains of evidence that show that it did.

We do not have hundred-percent certainty.

There isn't any such thing as 100% certainty. To ignore mountains of solid evidence based on that is silly.
 
okinrus said:
Whether evolution occurred some thousand years ago is not a fact. We do not have hundred-percent certainty. Of course, a professor can still say it's a fact; they must have different meaning, though.
It is occuring right now. If you have ever had influenza you have been the 'beneficiary' of the process.
 
Back
Top