Religion Creates Society

[SnakeLord]

Me? I've met and lived among strongly religious to barely religious people (Hindus, Muslims, Christians). The more religious, the more closely bound the families are, even cousins, second cousins get together.

1) Your data will most likely be invariably limited in scope if it is gained merely from observations of your.. friends?

2) Other factors would need to be examined: Work demands, locality of family members, income etc etc.

Poorer nations/people do tend to have closer families for several obvious reasons - It would be a hard task to try and put this down to their religion, (other than to show that poorer people tend to be more religious which could inaccurately lead to the conclusion that religious people are more family orientated because of their religion).

But then it's unlikely you'd be interested in any actual studies or data that might give you less excuse to hate atheists - which is clearly your only agenda.

 

[cosmictraveler]

You only have to look at the beginnings of institutions to understand how religion creates society.

When you meet a Muslim or a Christian, you meet a member of a group, when you meet an atheist you meet an individual.

Native Americans as well as many other villages that have "tribes" in them are even today banded togeter without religion. As in the past they never needed religion to work together to supply themselves with whatever they needed. So religion wasn't needed and isn't needed.

 

[spidergoat]

The Native Americans did have religions.

 

[iceaura]

Including theistic religions.

And music.

Which is at least as universal, and apparently as much a focal attribute of humans forming social groups, as religion.

 

[(Q)]

Society:

1) An extended social group having a distinctive cultural and economic organization.

2) A formal association of people with similar interests.

Religion:

A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.

Sam is wrong regarding the first definition of society, but correct on the second.

 

[S.A.M.]

The root of society is socius which is now considered companion but was previously considered follower and is related to sequi "to follow" (cf. O.E. secg, O.N. seggr "companion," which seem to have been formed on the same notion, as in sequel)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_religion

 

[Clown]

The root of society is socius which is now considered companion but was previously considered follower and is related to sequi "to follow" (cf. O.E. secg, O.N. seggr "companion," which seem to have been formed on the same notion, as in sequel)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_religion

Thank you walking encyclopedia.

Do you work as a reseacher?

 

[Myles]

The root of society is socius which is now considered companion but was previously considered follower and is related to sequi "to follow" (cf. O.E. secg, O.N. seggr "companion," which seem to have been formed on the same notion, as in sequel)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_religion

I think that is a non-sequitur, which means a non-follower of religion.

 

[Michael]

When you meet a Muslim or a Christian, you meet a member of a group, when you meet an atheist you meet an individual.

Many people who are atheist also consider themselves Chinese or Japanese etc...


Social groups exist in the animal kingdom. Dalphins, Apes, Chimps, etc...

Lastly, I thought evidence of humanoid social groups goes back hundreds of thousands of years yet evidence of abstract thought only a few tens of thousands.

 

[cosmictraveler]

The Native Americans did have religions.

Oh, and could you name them? :shrug:

They did have tribal meetings, dancing and festivals from time to time. But since they had NO written language how do you know that they had religion?

 

[spidergoat]

It's commonly known (I thought). In fact, some had a single deity, like God, which is why they were so easily converted to Christianity.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/index.htm

 

[cosmictraveler]

It's commonly known (I thought). In fact, some had a single deity, like God, which is why they were so easily converted to Christianity.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/index.htm

They fought very hard to escape Christianity and many tribes were wiped out fighting for their own freedom. Christians committed genocide against thousands of tribes bringing their numbers from the millions to the few thousands before the Christians were through slaughtering them. Great religion , Christianity , isn't it?

 

[spidergoat]

That may be so, but most Natives are Christian today. The South American natives simply incorporated Catholocism into native religions, there were amazing similarities between the sacrifice of Jesus, and their own stories of sacrifice.

 

[James R]

You only have to look at the beginnings of institutions to understand how religion creates society.

I think you have it backwards. Society creates religion.

When you meet a Muslim or a Christian, you meet a member of a group, when you meet an atheist you meet an individual.

Maybe you're not aware of the huge number of atheist groups, just on the internet alone.

 

[spidergoat]

What's so great about conformity? Being an individual is the apex of development. When you are part of a group, you a volunteering to give up your full potential as a unique material pattern.

 

[Michael]

The archaeological evidence shows that humanoid species interacted long before they buried their dead and long before any sort of evidence for religous beleif becomes apparent. We're talking about existing for hundreds of thousands of years in groups pre-religion.

Primates have been around for as far back as 85 million years BP. Homo sapiens evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 BP. Yet the earliest evidence of human burial dates back only to 130,000 years BP. So the religous mind is probably at best 100,000 years BP.

Before that homo sapiens lived in little social groups. We evolved from creatures that most certainly did not have the intellect to think abstractly about Gods (or Xenu) yet were working in social groups.

It's plainly obvious humanoid social grouping predates religion.



Also, again, lots of atheistic Chinese consider themselves CHINESE. The State has replaced the God for generations.


MII

 

[spidergoat]

We are social apes by definition, that applies in general wether we have religion or not.

 

[Michael]

I suppose I am not clear about the OP.
I mean, what exactly is the debate?

We know that primates formed social units and do not practice religion.
We know that humans and other primates evolved from a common ancestor that did not practice religion.
We know that the common ancestor formed social units.
Hence - social units predate religion.

Ergo social gatherings are not dependent on religion.

If anything religion, may, be dependent on social gathering. At least, if it's to be perpetuated past a single individual.

Lastly, isn't that the whole point in atheistic Communism? That the State or Nation acts in the place of religion.

I wonder if Romans were more inclined to defend their religous beleif or their State? My guess would be State. I think the State was more powerful back then.

 

[Myles]

Oh, and could you name them? :shrug:

They did have tribal meetings, dancing and festivals from time to time. But since they had NO written language how do you know that they had religion?

How about "Gitchimanito " ? See Song of Hiawatha