Religion Creates Society

A religious group is formed to ensure a certain kind of society. Like evolutionists who sneer at creationists, people who do not share the beliefs become outsiders.
You mean you exclude them?

I deal with people who don't beleive what I believe daily. Should I not talk to them, anymore?

What binds a group is need and common self-interests.
Religion evolves later as a result of theses common interests and needs.

I like the angle you take in religion's defense. It's always been a characteristic of the mind that is controlled by need and self-interests to place the cart before the donkey.

If is pleases you to beleive that a group of atheists would grumble in chaotic, violence, then continue doing so.
Nature contradicts you.

Animals beleive in nothing but in their senses and they form stable, compassionate, cooperative groups.
But, I forgot, they aren't HUMAN groups.
 
Its not correlation, its common sense. If I meet a religious person, that person is a known quantity in many ways, this facilitates communication. Meeting an Egyptian Christian for example, is no different from meeting an Indian Christian because they have core beliefs about society and interaction that are the same. They are a group without meeting each other. Meeting an athiest says nothing about the individual.

I see. What you are describing is a shared set of narratives that assist communication by providing a shortcut to complex ideas. Does this depend on religion, or can it arise on it's own non-religiously? For instance, could a literary narrative suffice?
 
You mean you exclude them?

I deal with people who don't beleive what I believe daily. Should I not talk to them, anymore?

What binds a group is need and common self-interests.
Religion evolves later as a result of theses common interests and needs.

It's a waste of time to get SAM to see this, because believing above means discarding God.
 
I see. What you are describing is a shared set of narratives that assist communication by providing a shortcut to complex ideas. Does this depend on religion, or can it arise on it's own non-religiously? For instance, could a literary narrative suffice?

Not outside a book club, I think. :shrug:

From what I can see, less religious families barely associate with each other.
 
I don't think so. Every established society that has lasted over a thousand years has a strong religious basis. In our lifetimes we have seen societies without religion disintegrate and reform as religious societies.

So there were societies without religion. Perhaps religious societies were responsible for the destruction of those societies that were different?
 
Not outside a book club, I think. :shrug:

From what I can see, less religious families barely associate with each other.
Ah, the evilness of atheism.

Yes, unbelief results in a lifetime of exclusion, loneliness and bitter resentment. Ironically not unlike the average Christians.
 
So there were societies without religion. Perhaps religious societies were responsible for the destruction of those societies that were different?

Nope, the Carvakas and Lokatyas simply faded away. Materialism apparently is not satisfying in the long term.
 
A this point this clown is looking for the door out. Evidently I stumbled upon a den of philosophers...the theistic kind.

I wonder what is satisfying in the "long run".

Blissful ignorance and a bottle of tequila.
 
Ah, the evilness of atheism.

Yes, unbelief results in a lifetime of exclusion, loneliness and bitter resentment. Ironically not unlike the average Christians.

You must know some strange average Christians. :p
 
Source of your data?

Me? I've met and lived among strongly religious to barely religious people (Hindus, Muslims, Christians). The more religious, the more closely bound the families are, even cousins, second cousins get together.

The less religious families seem to live much more insular lives and barely make family birthdays.
 
You must know some strange average Christians. :p
You must know no average atheists.

I do appreciate your need to find the value in remaining irrational. No, really I do.

But please do not spill your digested bile in public. It stinks up the place.

Nature and reality contradict your every word.
I would also suggest you consider the reality of religious members in name only.
The temples are full of charlatans and fakes.

What binds them to your noble group?

Need.
 
You must know no average atheists.

I do appreciate your need to find the value in remaining irrational. No, really I do.

But please do not spill your digested bile in public. It stinks up the place.

Nature and reality contradict your every word.
I would also suggest you consider the reality of religious members in name only.
The temples are full of charlatans and fakes.

What binds them to your noble group?

Need.

See? No group dynamics at all. :shrug:

Only negativity. How can negativity build any society?
 
Me? I've met and lived among strongly religious to barely religious people (Hindus, Muslims, Christians). The more religious, the more closely bound the families are, even cousins, second cousins get together.

The less religious families seem to live much more insular lives and barely make family birthdays.

my family is atheists, we eat together every night, extended family meet to eat every weekend, we celebrate every birth, birhday, wedding...
we love eachother


done generalizing?
 
SAM said:
A religious group is formed to ensure a certain kind of society. Like evolutionists who sneer at creationists, people who do not share the beliefs become outsiders.
So we ensure that all societies are formed by religions simply by expanding our concept of religion to include anything that forms a society, establishes norms of conduct, etc.

I think that's traditional, among religious anthropologists. Sometimes the people so described object, but what do they know ?

Poorer societies seem to organize as tribes, often extended families, with or without religion. Richer ones, too large for that, have to find something else. Those that do, tend to take over - religious belief is thereby a strength in war, for example.

Religion does other very valuable things for a group of people - such as prevent Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons. But these services mostly become critical when agriculture comes into the picture - which connects religion with conventionally "stable" as well as comparatively wealthy socieites.

And these good offices of religion are obtained regardless of the abstract doctrines or beliefs - provided only they can be marketed, or imposed, successfully. So throwing virgins into volcanoes or burning widows alive on their husband's pyre or providing human flesh for the Sun King's supper will do just as well, for hundreds of years, as any other expression of belief, provided the social group and sound agricultural practices are maintained. One God, ten Gods, no Gods, humans as Gods, animals as Gods, anything from weather phenomena to special trees worshipped - nature is indifferent to all that. Nature is not indifferent to whether the low field lies fallow every three years or every seven, however. Or whether medical practices are informed by study of anatomy and analysis of disease rather than by visions from prophets.

And so religions have their time, particular to a technology and way of life - but as these change, so must the religion, lest it become a burden. At this point, all those Gods and so forth have a real effect - like a flywheel on a car, they resist quick alterations of custom. They remember.

And we have people in Minnesota who get rickets and cancer from wearing hoodies all summer long, refuse to eat pork or ride a bicycle, and send their children overseas for genital mutilation. They are creating their society, see ?
 
I'd like to see any society that succeeds long term without religion. Individual cases aside, that has never happened in the long term.

my family is atheists, we eat together every night, extended family meet to eat every weekend, we celebrate every birth, birhday, wedding...
we love eachother


done generalizing?

How many generations of athiesm? You live in religious society, don't you?
 
I'd like to see any society that succeeds long term without religion. Individual cases aside, that has never happened in the long term.



How many generations of athiesm? You live in religious society, don't you?

hahaha, you're going to say that I love my family because my grandmother goes to church, right?

anyway, 2 on mother's side, 3 on dad's side
my grandmother on dad's side is native south american though, they kind of worship nature
 
hahaha, you're going to say that I love my family because my grandmother goes to church, right?

anyway, 2 on mother's side, 3 on dad's side
my grandmother on dad's side is native south american though, they kind of worship nature

Thats impressive, you must have a close knit society. Usually two generations of atheism is enough to create insularity in family relations.
 
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