Religion Creates Society

[spidergoat]

This is SAM's premise, which shouldn't be too hard to refute. What is society? If it's the same as civilization, then it arose when we learned to cultivate crops and gather surplus food that was easily stored, making room for specialized professions.

Can a single human sustain themselves in the wilderness? Only with great difficulty. Society below the civilization level can be explained by the necessity for a group of people to help each other out in hunting, gathering food, defending the tribe. The existence of a shared mythology is secondary. Living together and telling stories didn't create the society, but it does reinforce a tribal bond, as does the family relationships of people within the tribe.

 

[S.A.M.]

You only have to look at the beginnings of institutions to understand how religion creates society.

When you meet a Muslim or a Christian, you meet a member of a group, when you meet an atheist you meet an individual.

 

[spidergoat]

It can certainly create Empire, but society predates Islam and Christianity.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sure, go back as far as you like, the atheist will always be an individual and religion, a group.

 

[Clown]

You only have to look at the beginnings of institutions to understand how religion creates society.

When you meet a Muslim or a Christian, you meet a member of a group, when you meet an atheist you meet an individual.

Is religion an institution, perhaps?

Is a pride of lions a society?
Is a beehive a society?
Do they...believe?

 

[S.A.M.]

Personally I do not consider a beehive as a human society.

 

[redarmy11]

Society is a coming together of needs.

 

[spidergoat]

Correlation doesn't equal causation. You should know that by now.

 

[Clown]

Personally I do not consider a beehive as a human society.

But it is a society, right, whether you consider it 'human' or not?

I enjoyed your distinctions of human as opposed to other than human societies. It was inspiring. It worked well in defending your prejudiced reasoning.

your premise fails just by investigating reality. Too bad....nice try though.
Religion is a glue, no doubt, but not essential. It is mostly a result of communal living as beliefs are passed on through interactions.

If one of the members of a group believes dung is holy then the chances are that this belief will infect the entire group.
It will become part of the groups identity.

 

[S.A.M.]

Society is a coming together of needs.

Society is not about individual needs.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. You should know that by now.

Its not correlation, its common sense. If I meet a religious person, that person is a known quantity in many ways, this facilitates communication. Meeting an Egyptian Christian for example, is no different from meeting an Indian Christian because they have core beliefs about society and interaction that are the same. They are a group without meeting each other. Meeting an athiest says nothing about the individual.

 

[Clown]

Society is not about individual needs.

Well I learns something everyday.

Why is a group formed at all?

 

[spidergoat]

If it weren't, then an individual could do just as well alone in the wilderness. In reality, being ejected from the tribe was one of the worst punishments you could get, because it meant slow death.

 

[Clown]

Its not correlation, its common sense. If I meet a religious person, that person is a known quantity in many ways, this facilitates communication. Meeting an Egyptian Christian for example, is no different from meeting an Indian Christian because they have core beliefs about society and interaction that are the same. They are a group without meeting each other. Meeting an athiest says nothing about the individual.

It says that he's a rational thinker.
You really love religion, don't you?

 

[S.A.M.]

Well I learns something everyday.

Why is a group formed at all?

A religious group is formed to ensure a certain kind of society. Like evolutionists who sneer at creationists, people who do not share the beliefs become outsiders.

 

[Enmos]

Meeting an athiest says nothing about the individual.

It says the person does not believe in any God.. :shrug:

 

[S.A.M.]

It says the person does not believe in any God.. :shrug:

Not according to athiests. They have varied definitions about athiesm

And knowing a person does not believe in God is like knowing a person does not collect stamps.

It says nothing about what they do believe.

 

[Clown]

Not according to athiests. They have varied definitions about athiesm

And knowing a person does not believe in God is like knowing a person does not collect stamps.

It says nothing about what they do believe.

If someone doesn't believe in ghosts, what does this not say about them?

 

[redarmy11]

A religious group is formed to ensure a certain kind of society.

This is quite different from the premise: that religion creates society. Religion is a product, not a cause.

 

[Enmos]

Not according to athiests. They have varied definitions about athiesm

List them ?

And knowing a person does not believe in God is like knowing a person does not collect stamps.

It says nothing about what they do believe.

It says something about the person; he or she does not believe in God.

 

[S.A.M.]

This is quite different from the premise: that religion creates society. Religion is a product, not a cause.

I don't think so. Every established society that has lasted over a thousand years has a strong religious basis. In our lifetimes we have seen societies without religion disintegrate and reform as religious societies.